KotS Winterhaven size? (maybe spoilers?)

Emirikol · May 27, 2008

I figure this: Population of 977

Historical midieval earth analogue:"The typical farm has about 4 households per "hide" of 120 acres. Estimates of family size are ~4-5/household. Given 16-20 people per 120 acres "~ http://www.ibiblio.org/london/agriculture/general/1/msg00070.html

So, let's do the math:
Figure 100 people within the walls, 877 outside (18 people per 120 acres), One square mile = 640 acres, That's forty-nine 120 acre steads = 5880 acres

That's roughly 9 square miles surrounding the "town proper" of homesteads. That math seems to work out about right for me..including increased density closer to town.

If you grid out the map around the town, it's every square, including all the dungeon locales.

XXX
XWX
XXX

jay h

Morrus · May 27, 2008

There's certainly references to outlying farms. I'm inclined to go with the "most of them live outside the walls" explanation - it's simpler, it makes sense, and it works. Always go with the simplest answer!

Asmor · May 27, 2008

I thought the description was contradictory in places, but the clear intent was that most of that population lives outside the walled portion incorrectly referred to as the entire village.

Assuming Emirikol's figures are right and the farms evenly surround Winterhaven, that basically means that the farms stretch for 1.7 miles outside the walls in every direction.

Or, put in 4th edition terms, the town of Winterhaven has the following power:

Confusing Population Numbers
At will
Close Burst 1795

Target: All land within burst.

Effect: This land is farmland.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I forgot that in 4th edtion, pi is 4 since every circle is a square

. In that case, solving for the radius we get 1.5 miles, or a close burst 1584.

Emirikol · May 27, 2008

I like your math better, although "Effect: This land is farmland." is incorrect.

The numbers that I quote from assume that it's multi-use land, not just farming..but definately that's how much it takes to keep those 18 people (average) alive on crops, bush-meat, and livestock. 120 acres.

Gridded map attached. Red dots indicate areas where people are 18people per 120 acres.

jh

Irda Ranger · May 27, 2008

Asmor said:
in 4th edtion, pi is 4

I bet all those silly people who memorized the old pi out to 1000+ numbers are feeling pretty stupid now!

am181d · May 27, 2008

Can anyone present a preferred ratio of farmers/outliers to "inside the walls" folks? I'm working on a map for my first 4e town, and I'm trying to estimate population.

Nikodemus · May 27, 2008

Emirikol said:
I figure this: Population of 977

Historical midieval earth analogue:"The typical farm has about 4 households per "hide" of 120 acres. Estimates of family size are ~4-5/household. Given 16-20 people per 120 acres "~ http://www.ibiblio.org/london/agriculture/general/1/msg00070.html

So, let's do the math:
Figure 100 people within the walls, 877 outside (18 people per 120 acres), One square mile = 640 acres, That's forty-nine 120 acre steads = 5880 acres

That's roughly 9 square miles surrounding the "town proper" of homesteads. That math seems to work out about right for me..including increased density closer to town.

If you grid out the map around the town, it's every square, including all the dungeon locales.

XXX
XWX
XXX

jay h

I don't think we can assume that anything that doesn't comply to 11th rural English demographics is incorrect. Population density figures would look vastly different if you used medieval italy as a model.

Irda Ranger · May 27, 2008

Emirikol said:
Historical midieval earth analogue:"The typical farm has about 4 households per "hide" of 120 acres. Estimates of family size are ~4-5/household. Given 16-20 people per 120 acres "~ http://www.ibiblio.org/london/agriculture/general/1/msg00070.html

So, let's do the math:
Figure 100 people within the walls, 877 outside (18 people per 120 acres), One square mile = 640 acres, That's forty-nine 120 acre steads = 5880 acre

Assume that historical medieval earth did not have Protection From Blight, Predict Early Frost and Plant Growth and that Winterhaven does. Assume further that the Implied Setting has Late Renaissance farming implements to match its Late Renaissance heavy plate and zweihander swords. Assume that Druids, Dryads and Elves have taught people a thing or two about farming that were unknown to medieval earth. Lastly, assume the prior assumptions lead to a tripling of farmer productivity per acre. How does this effect land use requirements?

Irda Ranger · May 27, 2008

am181d said:
Can anyone present a preferred ratio of farmers/outliers to "inside the walls" folks? I'm working on a map for my first 4e town, and I'm trying to estimate population.

Put simply, no. It really depends on agricultural productivity in your campaign.

FWIW, Fallcrest has 1.5 people inside the town for each person on nearby farms.

Nikodemus · May 27, 2008

am181d said:
Can anyone present a preferred ratio of farmers/outliers to "inside the walls" folks? I'm working on a map for my first 4e town, and I'm trying to estimate population.

As Idra as suggested, that ratio is hugely variable. The overall population figures for the pre-industrial world are that 85%-90% of the population is directly involved in food production (usually farmers). But for a walled city itself, a ratio is 5 in the city for 4 in the countryside could certainly be possible, and that's before you account for supernaturally enhanced agriculture and trade.

KotS Winterhaven size? (maybe spoilers?)

Emirikol

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