The Power of "NO". Banned Races and Classes?

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
In the end, it's my belief that is is a generation-gap thing. I'm pretty sure you guys are what, 5-15 years older than me? Older? I'm 36. People over a certain age may have different ideas about Friar Tuck, but if so, they've not communicated them much.
As a 35 year old, I think that's a very large factor. My exposure to Robin Hood would be:
The Disney movie
The Kevin Costner movie
The Mel Brooks movie

I think that's it. Beyond that, it's mostly exposure to the Robin Hood concept when it's used a metaphor or a reference in other media. You read enough fantasy, you figure out who Robin Hood is just by association.

I mean, the first thing I think about when I hear Robin Hood is

"I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon!"
"Why a spoon, cousin, why not an axe..."
"Because it's dull, you twit, it will hurt more!"
 

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As a 35 year old, I think that's a very large factor. My exposure to Robin Hood would be:
The Disney movie
The Kevin Costner movie
The Mel Brooks movie

I think that's it. Beyond that, it's mostly exposure to the Robin Hood concept when it's used a metaphor or a reference in other media. You read enough fantasy, you figure out who Robin Hood is just by association.

I mean, the first thing I think about when I hear Robin Hood is

"I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon!"
"Why a spoon, cousin, why not an axe..."
"Because it's dull, you twit, it will hurt more!"

My exposure actually started with a copy of a book written in the 1600s about Robin Hood. The rest was the same movies you referenced when I was growing up. I was exposed more to Knights Templar stuff, which was due to my grandmother being a Knights Templar/Masons conspiracy theorist (among other things).

That said, every time I think of Robin Hood, I think of a certain song...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/12907
 


billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Can you explain, then, billd, how one is supposed to give a context to explain one's experiences, without people flying into a fury about it being "an appeal to authority"? These are my experience, my background, take it for what it's worth, is what I'm saying. You want to place zero value on it, go for it. You want to place a ton, go for it.

Perhaps you could simply say that you've never heard anyone refer to Friar Tuck as a sword fighter and say what your appropriate context is - something like "Hmmm.. I've never heard of Friar Tuck as a swordsman and I've got family from the Sherwood area." That's a recounting of experience. But you said that you didn't want to get all "appeal to authority" and that's pretty much a clear indicator that is exactly what you are about to do. It's a caveat intended to dodge the nature of the following statement but it usually points to exactly what that statement is. You see it a lot when people say things like "I don't want to sound racist..." and you always know it will be followed by a racist statement.


I haven't claimed any "objective" knowledge, afaik. If you want to infer that everything not preferences or suffixed with "IMO" is a claim of objective truth, let me know, please, so I can add you to my ignore list, because I literally never going to engage with someone who wants to play that game ever again! :)

Are you aware of what you've posted? I'll include your whole statement so there can't be any claim of taking things out of context:

Ruin Explorer said:
On what planet is this true? Because I think I can state objectively that, here, on Earth, in the UK and USA, Friar Tuck is known for being:

1) A Monk.

2) A Drunk.

3) Fighting generally.

But not for "fighting with a longsword in a steel cap". I mean, I don't want to get all "appeal to authority" on you, but as a British person growing up with constant exposure to the Robin Hood legend (my mum is from around there), via many media, one thing I never think of Friar Tuck being "known for" among either the general public or gamers is a "fighting with a Longsword and a steel cap".

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Banned-Races-and-Classes/page10#ixzz37q0X9kuQ

Was I not supposed to take this post seriously? You certainly did make an objective claim here.
 

Was I not supposed to take this post seriously? You certainly did make an objective claim here.

You weren't meant to take the objectively literally, given the "I think" which proceeds it. I can edit it if you like though! :)

God does literally even mean literally any more?! Or does it only mean metaphorically? Argh.

I can see there's no way around the authority thing. If I honestly list my experiences, I'm going to get accused of it, so "Oh well" is all I can say to that. :)
 

Holy cow, the dad from Good Luck Charlie (I have little kids, don't judge) was Little John in that movie! I never put that together.

Not judging. I babysit my young cousins a lot :)

God does literally even mean literally any more?! Or does it only mean metaphorically? Argh.

It means "overexaggerated metaphor" unless the speaker is autistic, at which point it means "literally."

I can see there's no way around the authority thing. If I honestly list my experiences, I'm going to get accused of it, so "Oh well" is all I can say to that. :)

This is why I don't post based on my experiences when arguing. On the internet, they either get derided as invalid or taken as being an objective statement.
 


Celebrim

Legend
Celebrim, you made specific assertions about what I you think I think. That's extremely rude, so you can apologise for that for starters, if you want a detailed answer.

Oh brother. Now we are going to get all passive aggressive and argue that "No, I'm not being rude, you are."

Let's start back from the beginning so as to avoid arguing over what we are arguing about and cut to the chase. I asserted a matter of fact statement that Friar Tuck is known for fighting with a sword and in a steel cap.

You took umbrage and that and asked, "On what planet is that true?" and make the claim that what I state is "ridiculous". You vaguely assert that you have special authority on these matters on the basis of your vast experience, but you aren't actually willing to demonstrate that authority and now you again find excuse to be silent because I'm being extremely rude to you. It's all so vague and anecdotal, but definitive apparently. When I quote or cite probably the most famous and influential portrayals of Friar Tuck in all of literature, you dismiss them because you aren't familiar with them as if your lack of familiarity makes them inconsequential. Everyone no doubt feels the same way.

Ok, fine:

This is Friar Tuck in 'Robin Hood' 1922 wt. Douglas Fairbanks
DouglasFairbanks.jpg

Friar Tuck in 'The Adventures of Robin Hood' 1936 wt. Errol Flynn, widely regarded as the definitive Robin Hood movie. It's also the most faithful to the 19th century literature that sets the tropes for the modern story.
the-adventures-of-robin-hood.jpg

This is James Hayter in his iconic role as Friar Tuck from 'The Story of Robin Hood' 1952. Pretty much every portrayal of Tuck since then builds on this characterization or else exaggerates some aspect of it.
TheStoryOfRobinHood.jpg RobinAndFriarTuck.jpg

Ok, so maybe it is a generational thing?

This is Friar Tuck from BBC's 'Robin of Sherwood' 1984, widely regarded as the modern trope setter in the genera.
RobinOfSherwood.jpg

I could do others but I'm clearly wasting my time.

On what planet does Friar Tuck fight with a sword? Earth.

If you haven't seen Friar Tuck holding a sword or wearing a steel cap, that's not my fault. It just implies you don't know much about Friar Tuck and have relatively little exposure to Robin Hood (and probably almost nothing to the myth of Robin Hood or to any academic discussion of Robin Hood).
 
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