How Much Do You Care About Novelty?

I don't know. I think we have seen some pretty cool innovative current games built around old mechanics. The *Without Number games come to mind, for example.
I mean if they do something cool and innovative with it, it is novelty for me so exactly what I crave in a game. I don't mean no game is allowed to reuse any mechanic ever again. But in general I search for novelty in terms of mechanics.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I agree with you, but I don't need new games coming out using old mechanics - I just play the old games. I'd rather see new experiments that might fail because it turns out using a jenga block for resolution is not great than seeing the same slight variation of 5e for the 100th time.
That's a good point, maybe I'm being too narrow in my definition of novelty. To me, novelty seems like a totally new way to do something. So, Burning wheel's Duel of Wits or complex Fight system would be novel. But Worlds Without Number is just refining and polishing design patterns that have been around for ages. And I would rather play WWN than DnD 2e.

I agree that it's nice to see crazy experimental games. It's just hard to see myself ever playing them. If someone makes just "5e but it's cavemen times" I wouldn't be excited about it, but it's easy to see a future in which one of my friends wants to run a caveman game, and that variation on existing themes is the best tool for the job.
 

The good thing about novel games offering a "fresh take" that revitalise the RPG experience with edgy and modernised approaches is how much they make me appreciate going back and playing the classics after a couple of sessions.
 

How much do I care? After the point it makes playing worthwhile but before the point it makes playing tedious.

Tropes are largely story elements, not game elements.
Tropes are discrete packets of expectations which can either be embraced or subverted. As such they are very gameable.

I value novelty a lot in passive fiction (books, movies, music), but in an active game I don't think I need much of it.
One problem when novelty is applied to games is that it makes determining the consequences of your actions more difficult than it would be in a more grounded/familiar system/setting.
 

So, when it comes to RPGs -- from your personal campaigns to published games/materials -- how much do you care about that relationship? Do you want comfortable tropes, or weird innovative ideas? Does the particular genre matter? Do you want that familiarity or innovation from publishers, or in your homebrew? Does the answer change if you are playing a campaign vs a one shot?
Why not both?

Honestly, I'll take either, so long as it's done well.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, but genuinely, a trope-y RPG that's exceptionally well-made is great, and a novel RPG with brings in really cool ideas is great. I've played and enjoyed both in recent years.

Rule-wise, I think it's important that rules keep developing. Frankly, RPGs are much, much, much better designed now, in 2025, than they were in 2005, let alone before than, hell even than 2015, on average. And I say better for a reason, I don't say "differently". Better. Designers understand rules better, they think about them more thoroughly, they make actual thoughtful choices on which rules to use and so on. Things aren't perfect but there's a clear direction of improvement.

We also have more diversity in actually-solid rules systems than ever before. Even when very old systems are used, particularly d100 role-under, they're intelligently and with care in most cases, for games where that makes sense.

The only thing I hard-oppose is "weird dice", because literally there's nothing mathematically you can do with those that you couldn't just do with normal dice (or, if there is, I have yet to see it, I am open to seeing it if people have examples), and frankly every game I've played with them, they were just an excuse to get more money out of the group and maybe try and lock new gamers into their "ecosystem".

Also in terms of settings, honestly we're missing many RPGs that actually, properly support a lot of fairly common "vibes" in SF/F, ones which have well-established tropes in many cases, but RPGs are simply not be made for (apart from rizz-less half-arsed 5E-based attempts, which are always poorly-designed nothingburgers and/or hopelessly compromised by being "5E compatible" so far).

Although it's delightful to find something both weird and good.
Yeah this is part of why I've been so keen on Rowan, Rook and Deckard, and Grant Howitt's output in general. Weird and wild settings with something to say and some actual ideas, combined with rules that actually work well, and for the most part, support the setting and the fiction. Also there's clear improvement - Heart is flat-out better designed for what it is doing than Spire was (and Spire was already good), and I'm hoping Hollows will continue this trend!
 
Last edited:

I mean if they do something cool and innovative with it, it is novelty for me so exactly what I crave in a game. I don't mean no game is allowed to reuse any mechanic ever again. But in general I search for novelty in terms of mechanics.
I look for believability and/or logic in terms of mechanics.
 

One problem when novelty is applied to games is that it makes determining the consequences of your actions more difficult than it would be in a more grounded/familiar system/setting.
That can be true, but sometimes the opposite is the case, particularly if many games which purported to be of that "genre" actually had rules-systems which ran contrary to genre expectations. For me this has particularly come up with superhero and "modern action"-type RPGs.

Like, Spycraft didn't really innovate, rules-wise, but because it insisted on sticking to 3.XE-style rules, rather than leaning into the actual genre it purported to be, you constantly got into situations where the rules produced a situation which was at odds with the genre/trope expectations deeply embedded into the heads of the players.
 

That can be true, but sometimes the opposite is the case, particularly if many games which purported to be of that "genre" actually had rules-systems which ran contrary to genre expectations. For me this has particularly come up with superhero and "modern action"-type RPGs.

Like, Spycraft didn't really innovate, rules-wise, but because insisted on sticking to 3.XE-style rules, rather than leaning into the actual genre it purported to be, you constantly got into situations where the rules produced a situation which was at odds with the genre/trope expectations deeply embedded into the heads of the players.
Exactly. What many of these D20 adaptions miss the concepts of the tropes, and you end up with spy D&D.
 

That can be true, but sometimes the opposite is the case, particularly if many games which purported to be of that "genre" actually had rules-systems which ran contrary to genre expectations. For me this has particularly come up with superhero and "modern action"-type RPGs.

Like, Spycraft didn't really innovate, rules-wise, but because it insisted on sticking to 3.XE-style rules, rather than leaning into the actual genre it purported to be, you constantly got into situations where the rules produced a situation which was at odds with the genre/trope expectations deeply embedded into the heads of the players.
Like what? It had the rules widgets I expected a spy game to have.
 

Like what? It had the rules widgets I expected a spy game to have.
Like the combat just completely didn't work with spy genre stuff on a very basic level, for an easy example. You couldn't behave remotely like anyone in James Bond or Mission Impossible, or even The Man from UNCLE in combat, you'd just die if you did.

And "rules widgets" is actually a great example supporting my point. You can't just slap "rules widgets" on top of a system designed for one specific thing (to play D&D) and then expect it to work well as a completely different genre. Realistically you need to take away and change as well as add, which these systems are almost never prepared to do to - either at all, or to the necessary degree, depending on the system.

Instead you just get D&D wearing a dinner jacket, but still behaving like D&D!

(Sometimes with genres with tropes fundamentally much closer to D&D things can work out - the SW d20 RPGs for example were not amazing but also not awful.)
 

Remove ads

Top