Dungeons & Dragons (2000) was a passion project turned cinematic disaster

Parmandur said:

Honestly no idea what this means...?

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GreyLord said:

5e (started with 3e so those with 3e wouldn't be isolated from it as those from earlier D&D or other types of RPGs) has it's own anachronisms that are different than what standard fantasy tropes are.

For example, Kenku are not a standard Fantasy trope and neither are Tieflings. People will not be familiar with these types of creatures in a movie. Without any explanation of why this weird druid lady (if they place that she is a druid) has horns, they have no idea what is going on or why. The movie does a particularly bad role in explaining such things and unless you are familiar with the games which run them (3e had them, but tieflings didn't really become a thing until 4e), you have no idea why or what on some of these things.

You have a bard, but bards are not something that is necessarily a standard Fantasy item. More people will be familiar with a Bard as you can see them through history and quite a number of fantasies have them, but they aren't something the general public really associates with Fantasy.

With historical tropes Bards were not normally those who waltzed and danced around, they were more warriors and figures of historical yore (Homer, Odysseus, those types for Greek Lore). Even in D&D, Bards were an off class in 1e, non-existent really in BX and BECMI, and started to become a standard class in 2e, but in that were more of Jack of All-Trades than what they became in 3e and then evolved into what they are in 5e.

That's one of the Big Main Characters of the movie.

There are various spells and other items (dealing with the little girl for example) that just...aren't fully explained in the movie and rely on you knowing and understanding what they are. Something every 5e player would know most likely, but some of them, even an older player would not be familiar with.

Things such as that.

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GreyLord said:

5e (started with 3e so those with 3e wouldn't be isolated from it as those from earlier D&D or other types of RPGs) has it's own anachronisms that are different than what standard fantasy tropes are.

For example, Kenku are not a standard Fantasy trope and neither are Tieflings. People will not be familiar with these types of creatures in a movie. Without any explanation of why this weird druid lady (if they place that she is a druid) has horns, they have no idea what is going on or why. The movie does a particularly bad role in explaining such things and unless you are familiar with the games which run them (3e had them, but tieflings didn't really become a thing until 4e), you have no idea why or what on some of these things.

You have a bard, but bards are not something that is necessarily a standard Fantasy item. More people will be familiar with a Bard as you can see them through history and quite a number of fantasies have them, but they aren't something the general public really associates with Fantasy.

With historical tropes Bards were not normally those who waltzed and danced around, they were more warriors and figures of historical yore (Homer, Odysseus, those types for Greek Lore). Even in D&D, Bards were an off class in 1e, non-existent really in BX and BECMI, and started to become a standard class in 2e, but in that were more of Jack of All-Trades than what they became in 3e and then evolved into what they are in 5e.

That's one of the Big Main Characters of the movie.

There are various spells and other items (dealing with the little girl for example) that just...aren't fully explained in the movie and rely on you knowing and understanding what they are. Something every 5e player would know most likely, but some of them, even an older player would not be familiar with.

Things such as that.

Click to expand...

GreyLord said:

5e (started with 3e so those with 3e wouldn't be isolated from it as those from earlier D&D or other types of RPGs) has it's own anachronisms that are different than what standard fantasy tropes are.

For example, Kenku are not a standard Fantasy trope and neither are Tieflings. People will not be familiar with these types of creatures in a movie. Without any explanation of why this weird druid lady (if they place that she is a druid) has horns, they have no idea what is going on or why. The movie does a particularly bad role in explaining such things and unless you are familiar with the games which run them (3e had them, but tieflings didn't really become a thing until 4e), you have no idea why or what on some of these things.

You have a bard, but bards are not something that is necessarily a standard Fantasy item. More people will be familiar with a Bard as you can see them through history and quite a number of fantasies have them, but they aren't something the general public really associates with Fantasy.

With historical tropes Bards were not normally those who waltzed and danced around, they were more warriors and figures of historical yore (Homer, Odysseus, those types for Greek Lore). Even in D&D, Bards were an off class in 1e, non-existent really in BX and BECMI, and started to become a standard class in 2e, but in that were more of Jack of All-Trades than what they became in 3e and then evolved into what they are in 5e.

That's one of the Big Main Characters of the movie.

There are various spells and other items (dealing with the little girl for example) that just...aren't fully explained in the movie and rely on you knowing and understanding what they are. Something every 5e player would know most likely, but some of them, even an older player would not be familiar with.

Things such as that.

Click to expand...

payn said:

Ok... I gotta say I think you have things totally backwards. Its been 26 years since 3E launched and 4E has been done for over 10. Millennials grew up watching weird ass cartoons, with complex characters and concepts. Since the Lord of the Rigns films in 2000, there has been a plethora of fantasy offerings of all types. I dont think folks will have a hard time following along or going with it.

Lets look at the bard as you say. I think if they made one as you point out, they would be asking, "where is the lute? Where is the spoony behavior?" Event he Witcher bard follows the modern suit. Which isnt event hat modern its been like this for 30 plus years.

You may be discounting the fact that DADHAT dropped in the middle of a major franchise sandwich which likely hurt its sales more than not sticking to 70's litt class lore.

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GreyLord said:

You are taking the view of someone familiar with D&D, and specifically 5e D&D.

Most people have no idea what a Tiefling is. It wasn't even a core race until 4e for those who play D&D. Most people have no clue what D&D players stereotype as a bard or think of when they see a bard.

For a main you probably should have a zero to hero (like HP or LotR), a Warrior type (someone they can relate to as they have no magic and face things like...a warrior), or a complete fantasy type (wizard spellcasting character which is entirely engulfed in the magic quota).

HaT did none of that. Digging into the D&D tropes can be done, but if you want it to appeal more to general audiences, you have to also make it more accessible to general audiences.

IMO of course. Obviously you have those that disagreed with that in regards to the movie/film.

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payn said:

Ok... I gotta say I think you have things totally backwards. Its been 26 years since 3E launched and 4E has been done for over 10. Millennials grew up watching weird ass cartoons, with complex characters and concepts. Since the Lord of the Rigns films in 2000, there has been a plethora of fantasy offerings of all types. I dont think folks will have a hard time following along or going with it.

Lets look at the bard as you say. I think if they made one as you point out, they would be asking, "where is the lute? Where is the spoony behavior?" Event he Witcher bard follows the modern suit. Which isnt event hat modern its been like this for 30 plus years.

You may be discounting the fact that DADHAT dropped in the middle of a major franchise sandwich which likely hurt its sales more than not sticking to 70's litt class lore.

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MGibster said:

Most people want to tell their side of the story when the dominant one paints them as the villain. She might be the only major player in TSR's history who hasn't offered her account of what was happening in TSR. Of course it could be that she just decided the TSR chapter of her life was closed and she simply doesn't feel the need to talk about it. It could be that she's got something written down with the intention of having it published after her death. That'd be something.

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Willie the Duck said:

I think she likely thinks that her detractors won. More to the point, there likely isn't much direct benefit for her to come forward trying to change the narrative even if she thinks it possible. She could theoretically change the narrative, but only amongst people she's long since stopped dealing with. Most likely the people she is around these days don't know about this stuff in depth, nor care -- she's Lorie in 13B who used to work in publishing somehow.

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