[WIR] The Lord of the Rings Trilogy

Book 3, Chapter 6: the King of the Golden Hall

1. The "would you part an old man from his walking stick?" came from Aragorn in the book, but Gandalf in the films. In the book it's a case of Aragorn helping ensure they're not entirely defenseless, but in the films it is Gandalf being clever in making the guard sound discourteous to ask him of that. I like both versions.
2. An interesting thing I noticed is that when Théoden asks Gandalf why he should be welcomed when all he brings is bad news, Wormtongue interjects with a "you speak justly, my lord" compliment and then piles on the criticisms. The king asks a guest a question, and the advisor speaking before an answer can be given would be viewed as an unwanted interruption, but it showcases the power dynamics between Théoden and Wormtongue.

Book 3, Chapter 7: Helm's Deep

1. Today I learned what a "coomb" is! Thanks, Tolkien!
2. "But you are a dwarf, and dwarves are strange folk. I do not like this place, and I shall like it no more by the light of day. But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe." Aw, a nice callback to Gimli going "I find your people weird, but I like you."
3. I also like the brief scene cutaway of Gimli and Legolas counting between each other how many orcs/Dunlendings they can kill.
4. Aragorn expressing anger at not noticing the forces sneaking in via the culvert due to the earlier discussion with Gamling loredumping about the Dunlendings is rather amusing to me in a "there's a time and place for speeches" way.

Book 3, Chapter 8: the Road to Isengard

1. I like the banter between Legolas and Gimli of their alternative awe and fear of Fangorn Forest and Helm’s Deep. I particularly like how Gimli speaks poetically of the caves that it deeply moves Legolas.
2. New word learned today: “eyot,” or small island in Middle English!
3. I wonder if the strange moving darkness and groaning voices that passed by the group at night was meant to be something we’ll discover later, or like the “things gnawing at the earth” is yet another unexplained mystery of Middle-Earth’s creatures.
4. “There stood a tower of marvellous shape. It was fashioned by the builders of old, who smoothed the Ring of Isengard, and yet it seemed a thing not made by the craft of Men, but riven from the bones of the earth in the ancient torment of the hills.” Very poetic phrasing, I like this passage.
5. (Some of) the Fellowship is reunited with Merry and Pippin! And apparently there was a great offscreen battle in Isengard. Well, we did get enough action in the prior chapter of Helm’s Deep, so that’s fine.

Book 3, Chapter 9: Flotsam and Jetsam

1. When first reading Pippin’s reenactment of the Ent-song, I thought it was oddly short at a mere two lines. Then the paraphrased explanation of it being mostly sound-effects is kind of making me wish I could’ve seen Tolkien write a string of onomatopoeias.
2. Merry’s explanation of the Ent’s battle at Isengard, along with the aftermath and Gandalf’s arrival, is really imaginative and does a good job at “filling in the blanks” of what the rest of the Fellowship missed while on the way there.

Libertad said:

New word learned today: “eyot,” or small island in Middle English!

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You should have learned in the chapters on the Anduin river, because it's used several times there. (I recently listened to the audiobooks, and it took me a while to figure out what these "eights" in the river were.)

Libertad said:

New word learned today: “eyot,” or small island in Middle English!

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Still in use, the Thames has several. Islands in the River Thames - Wikipedia

Libertad said:

I particularly like how Gimli speaks poetically of the caves that it deeply moves Legolas.

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I do dearly love John Rhys Davies, and his performance of Gimli was entertaining...but the characters was dobe dirty by the writers.

Libertad said:

I wonder if the strange moving darkness and groaning voices that passed by the group at night was meant to be something we’ll discover later, or like the “things gnawing at the earth” is yet another unexplained mystery of Middle-Earth’s creatures.

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I don't think that's really unexplained. Just mysterious to the men of Rohan who heard it pass by. But the answer you seek was in the following paragraph wherein the people who stayed at the Hornburg witnessed the departure of the forest - herded by the ents. The strong implication is that the sounds moving by Théoden and his party were from that same forest returning toward Fangorn from Helm's Deep.

billd91 said:

The strong implication is that the sounds moving by Théoden and his party were from that same forest returning toward Fangorn from Helm's Deep.

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I thought it was the Huorns.

el-remmen said:

I thought it was the Huorns.

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It was, in fact, a forest of huorns.

Book 3, Chapter 10: the Voice of Saruman

1. Looks like Gimli and Éomer were the first to pass their Will saves against Saruman's enchanting voice!
2. Very easy for Saruman to speak of the Power of Friendship when he's surrounded and the rest of his forces in Isengard are demolished. Gandalf casts Vicious Mockery in response.
3. Saruman counters by casting Projection: "Very much in the manner of Gandalf the Grey: so condescending, and so very kind."

Book 3, Chapter 11: the Palantir

1. Aha, so it appears that Saruman was in contact with the Nazgûl via the Palantir! Seems like he was closer to the Dark Lord than before, even if not intended so.
2. Ah Fëanor, that's a name I recall as being a notable elven antihero (hero turned villain?) of the Simarillion. How appropriate that the Palantir he likely crafted has a "tempting with its power" atmosphere.

Done with Book 3! Halfway there!

I haven't done any more reading yet, but I did want to talk about the Dunlendings and why I find them fascinating. This came after jumping through various fan wikis and reddit discussions.

They're a group that appears to have some legitimate historical grievances for their treatment by other Men in the past (Numenoreans burning their forests, their leader Freca being killed by Helm, etc), but their hatred is used and manipulated by Saruman, who also feeds them false information like claiming that the Rohirrim burn PoWs alive.

There's also a clear contrast in the story of how at least in comparison to the orcs, who fought to the death and were given no quarter, there's an implication that during the 4th Age there was a slow peace or at least non-aggression pact being made with the Dunlendings and Rohan.

And yes, I am aware that Tolkien had very conflicted feelings on the orcs, but it's kind of interesting to see between the groups serving Saruman, the Dunlendings are still villainous but more "reasonable" in comparison to the orcs' portrayal. At least what I've read so far.

It was apparently part of the extended edition, but there was a scene in Jacksons' Two Towers where Saruman was giving a speech to them, and the Dunlendings were portrayed as being rather primitive, mostly clad in leathers and furs and holding spears and knives. And one of their leaders swears an oath of service to Saruman.But in seeing various other portrayals, I've seen them range from having war gear on par with Rohan and Gondor such as wearing chainmail and swords, and others where they're basically Conan-style half-naked warrior dudes. Then again, one could argue that the former example is Saruman outfitting them with more proper gear, but it does make me wonder if they're more meant to be like Gondor/Rohan in being another established feudal (yet relatively impoverished) people who end up aligned with the Enemy or the stereotypical "primitive evil hordes." Or maybe there's multiple groups at different technology levels.

Various interpretations I've seen of Dunlending art:

Libertad said:

I haven't done any more reading yet, but I did want to talk about the Dunlendings and why I find them fascinating. This came after jumping through various fan wikis and reddit discussions.

They're a group that appears to have some legitimate historical grievances for their treatment by other Men in the past (Numenoreans burning their forests, their leader Freca being killed by Helm, etc), but their hatred is used and manipulated by Saruman, who also feeds them false information like claiming that the Rohirrim burn PoWs alive.

There's also a clear contrast in the story of how at least in comparison to the orcs, who fought to the death and were given no quarter, there's an implication that during the 4th Age there was a slow peace or at least non-aggression pact being made with the Dunlendings and Rohan.

And yes, I am aware that Tolkien had very conflicted feelings on the orcs, but it's kind of interesting to see between the groups serving Saruman, the Dunlendings are still villainous but more "reasonable" in comparison to the orcs' portrayal. At least what I've read so far.

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The Dunlendings are basically the widespread inhabitants of parts of Middle Earth who have been pushed aside and off their ancestral lands by other, high-competitive migrant cultures - the Númenóreans and later the Rohirrim. They have long memories, at least in their stories, and long-held grievances against the more powerful groups that pushed them into more marginal lands that will leave them mired in poverty and bare subsistence if they don't find a way to assimilate (like the Men of Bree ultimately did - they too are descendants of Dunlendings). And, yes, that makes them vulnerable to being manipulated, to having their grievances and resentments stoked.

They seem to be inspired, at least partly, by the Celtic Fringe clinging to the Scottish highlands, Welsh mountains and valleys, and Ireland as a counterpart to the Anglo-Saxons, Viking raiders/settlers, and even Normans.