D&D General I’m Trying to Love D&D Again—and I’ve Got Some Complaints. Young Grognard posting.

KnightofCaliban · Monday at 3:24 PM

aco175 said:
I have never played online, but this seems to make me think it is like the rest of the online places (except mostly this one) where people are more ok or self-centered or free to say and do things since in real life they would get told to go away. I think there should be moments of everyone's playstyle in the night of gaming, but some people only want one part and finding a group you fit in should help.

I'm sorry I missed you! There's a level to it right. Giving the rogue the spotlight to talk to their childhood friend or scout ahead along with moments for the rest of the party are something I not only expect but want to see. But when It's been 4 sessions with no combat, the Role play is fluffy and just improv I'm not clocking out but long gone.

KnightofCaliban · Monday at 3:36 PM

payn said:
Hi, welcome.

Traditional is a wide target. Traditional as in old school skill play? Or traditional as in theme and setting?

Folks have a hard time just wrapping their heads around the standard official offerings. I think there are two points that they struggle with. One is system mastery and adding hombrew is just more to learn. The second is trust. There has been a ton of homebrew stuff out there and folks are just not sure if its going to work well or not. It's not that official is insurance against a bad product, but folks just dont want to roll the dice.

You just need to advertise well that you want to use homebrew and find folks who have a similar interest.

It's online culture. Folks just jump on anything, dont commit to it, dont care much of it, will ghost it in a seconds notice. I recommend trying Adventure League or PF society for a time. The goal here is to meet people in a low-commitment environment and build towards common understanding and desire. Build up to a steady campaign and learn the personalities of the players to see if you fit in every category. You will find better longer-lasting games if you build up to them instead of trying to start with them.

See above. You are trying to get a specific play experience with randos. You gotta work your way to it first. It takes intent, time, and solid commitment to make it work.

Hoo boy. Being LGBTQ+ isnt political. It's being who you are. I know its hard to imagine why folks are sensitive about it, what having never ever to fear just being yourself in any situation at all ever in your entire life, but lets think about this for a second. LGBTQ+ folks face a lot of discrimination to put it lightly. My experience with online communities is that it can get pretty bad. Often, the folks in the game dont know each other, so they often dont care if they are being rude or offensive. They could ghost the game like that and not care. Though, folks of the anti-woke persuasion often feel like they need to stick it out and push others to ghost instead.

Long story short, LGBTQ+ folks are having a hard time finding a good online game just like you. Unlike you, they face an extra hurdle to finding a good game. A hurdle thats likely 10X worse than anything you have described in your troubles finding a good game to date. Just give that another thought and consideration, please.

For traditional... I guess both? I think I mean more theme and setting though.
I get you that It's hard finding a table that has what I'm after and I need to be upfront and honest about what I'm after. It's just... exhausting. I lack the context of how finding games used to be or what was considered normal. I just look at what I have always seen as the like, very lore and rules focused. I need to stop assuming it's what everyone's after as well.
On the last point, thank you for being so respectful. I know it's hard for everyone. I've just had so many bad experiences that I'm getting jaded and bitter far too early in life haha... I don't hate anyone, two of the best guys I've met playing dnd were gay. I kick myself once a week for losing contact with them after the game fell apart. But every time I've tried playing in a group or interviewed a person with LGBTQ+ posted everywhere it was a different animal. I know this might seem unlikely given my posting here on enworld but I'm not talking about anything at the table outside of the game, shows/games I've enjoyed and think the other players might as well.

Belen · Monday at 3:37 PM

KnightofCaliban said:
On the Pern and sex stuff, I don't mind romance and the like being in the game. I have a hard line at ERP, which I don't think is to crazy of a limit. But it's the first thing people are sharing and making a huge deal about in game after game. I've played in a game where a nonbinary gnome raised by their overbearing lesbian mothers who wanted them to be a lawyer lashed out and made a warlock pact to become on the run. If it was ended there I'd say "ok this is a hard self insert for someone to vent" but the topic kept coming up again and again as the mothers became recuring NPC's. Also I'm frustrated at the amount of self inserts. I just want to have a consistent group where we slay some goblins, gather gold, save a town, die to a dragon. I'm aware of the how freaky FR is, one of the big ways I learned is the Tiefling breast milk thread on Twitter with Ed Greenwood. A thread where I have no idea on what's appropriate anymore where one of the women making a huge deal on how Ed's a freak actively draws/commissions art of her Tiefling vtuber getting railed by dragons... I don't know where the line is on any of this as I see people who seem sex positive being sex negative and people who make sex their entire character. While I don't want any of it to be a big deal.

Another example of toxic social media.

I run PG-13 games. If a player wants more, then I am sure they can find it somewhere else. Maybe you want to avoid such content in the future.

Umbran · Monday at 3:39 PM

KnightofCaliban said:
The big things I wanted to hit on why has the traditional adventure/game seemed to have been replaced?

I think that it hasn't really been replaced. It no longer being quite so dominant is not the same as replacement.

KnightofCaliban said:
Why the weird weird mixed feelings on Thirdparty/homebrew content?

Because third party and homebrew content is of mixed quality.

KnightofCaliban said:
Why is the current online recruiting spots (reddit, Startplaying) so... bad?

Because RPG play is high on interpersonal interaction, but online recruiting doesn't give you a great idea of what people are actually like.

KnightofCaliban said:
Why are modern players so bad at the game and the seeming want to remove the G from RPG?

Why are there people who want to go out to get Indian food instead of pizza?

Different people just want different things, dude.

KnightofCaliban said:
I grew up reading Dragonlance, Dragon riders of Pern and a bunch of fantasy. I grew up watching a bunch of shows like the DnD cartoon, Pirates of Blackwater, Masters of the Universe and more

Which means you grew up on things that were largely off the air or otherwise had their heyday years before you were even born.

Entertainments change with the times they are in, and shift to meet the realities of their audiences. So, modern games aren't likely to focus on the styles of decades past.

KnightofCaliban said:
So many games I see posted are more or less giving away the whole plot like reading the back of a book. The art of subtly is lost...

I don't know that the media you referenced was really known for its subtlety, either.

When you're posting games for a wide audience, you have a choice:
1) Tell folks what they are getting into, so they can make informed choices
2) Leave them in ignorance, and hope they are into what you're laying down just by random chance.

Leaving it up to chance is a good way to have people all around disappointed.

KnightofCaliban said:
and seems very much like the DM has a story they want to tell, if your lucky your characters will have their backstory factor in.

You yourself just mentioned that online methods of meeting gamers kinda stink. In general, loads of folks report that finding groups to play with is as best haphazard.

Building bespoke campaigns for players who you aren't sure are going to make it to more than a couple sessions, or match your playstyle, or even be people you want to hang around with frequently, isn't a winning proposition for the GM.

So, the GM builds something they like themselves, or buys some published adventure content, and runs it - you like it, or you don't.

Belen · Monday at 3:44 PM

KnightofCaliban said:
Please point me in the right direction. I brought up the places that I've always thought as the most popular, hell even if you ask an AI chatbot they point you to the r/lfg and startplaying. While I'm done doing paid games I really want to know where I need to look.

ENWorld has a gamers seeking gamers forum and so does DDB. I have been successful in the past with both. I have also used meetup.com and found great players for local or online.

Heck, I went to SC Comic-con this weekend and met a bunch of artists and writers who want to game just by wearing a D&D t-shirt.

payn · Monday at 3:47 PM

KnightofCaliban said:
For traditional... I guess both? I think I mean more theme and setting though.
I get you that It's hard finding a table that has what I'm after and I need to be upfront and honest about what I'm after. It's just... exhausting. I lack the context of how finding games used to be or what was considered normal. I just look at what I have always seen as the like, very lore and rules focused. I need to stop assuming it's what everyone's after as well.
On the last point, thank you for being so respectful. I know it's hard for everyone. I've just had so many bad experiences that I'm getting jaded and bitter far too early in life haha... I don't hate anyone, two of the best guys I've met playing dnd were gay. I kick myself once a week for losing contact with them after the game fell apart. But every time I've tried playing in a group or interviewed a person with LGBTQ+ posted everywhere it was a different animal. I know this might seem unlikely given my posting here on enworld but I'm not talking about anything at the table outside of the game, shows/games I've enjoyed and think the other players might as well.

I'd view it as LGBTQ+ being an important element to some folks, and if that is highlighted, perhaps politely move on to the next offer if you dont want that to be an element of the gaming group. There will be plenty of games that it isnt.

Thinking about your comment about two entire sessions and no combat being undesired makes me double down on league/society play. The sessions are 4 hours, tell a more or less complete adventure, and you will get into combats. Also, do some social and exploration. Dont think of it as playing league/society forever, but think of it as exploring both structure and community for finding better suited games and people.

Bae'zel · Monday at 4:04 PM

The thing with playing with people of different political views is... I only play games with people I like to hang out with and whom I know are a good "fit" with a given group.

I know this isn't an option with strangers, per se (it can be a lot harder to read people you've just met, especially online), but I count myself lucky that I have the friends that I have, and the process that I have (ie, casual social interaction to determine if we'll get along).

Plaguescarred · Monday at 4:18 PM

Sorry to hear you how you feel about the game today, i really hope you will find a way to enjoy it more in the future.

D&D is a great Roleplaying Game! But it's also one that is very volatile in terms of the experience you can get, depending on a multitude of factors. Like wether you play online or in person, the players & DM running the game and their level of experience mastering it, the playstyle favored at the table, which ruleset used, how hard or loose they follow the rules, the ammount of Houserules implemented, the ammount of Homebrewed rules used, the uses of Third-Party material if any, among other things.

These in way can impact one's fun with D&D more or less.

The Firebird · Monday at 4:30 PM

The complaints you have are relatively common ones with D&D. I think you'd be well served by looking for different gaming styles which favor more grounded adventure over self-insert characters. OSR games are a good place to look for this because they generally favor more emergent storytelling and grounded characters. You might look for human-only games as well, or games where you start in a funnel (like Dungeon Crawl Classics). These favor characters being defined by the world and their adventures rather than the players, and helps with the self-insert stuff.

Then, I think you will have better luck in-person than online. Without knowing where you are, I can't offer any specific advice. If you're in a big enough market, I'd pick some common OSR systems (Dungeon Crawl Classics, Shadowdark) look for discord servers associated with those games, and then use their LFG system. If there is AL or something that is also a great way to meet players, although you will have to accept some friction and mediocre games as a way of meeting people.

Belen · Monday at 4:35 PM

Bae'zel said:
The thing with playing with people of different political views is... I only play games with people I like to hang out with and whom I know are a good "fit" with a given group.

I know this isn't an option with strangers, per se (it can be a lot harder to read people you've just met, especially online), but I count myself lucky that I have the friends that I have, and the process that I have (ie, casual social interaction to determine if we'll get along).

I have always had friends with politically diverse views. I am not going to jettison people over politics as they tend to be good people. A few have gone toxic over the years and that has made me quite sad because I do not like to cut friends out of my life. In general, the vast majority of D&D players are tolerant and accepting people even if they hold differing viewpoints. My main points in for people is that you do not have to agree with everything, but you do have to shown people respect and tolerance.

I have the no politics rule these days because many lack the skills to hold a reasonable conversation around politics. The sides have more in common with religion. I have found that most people are closer together than the rhetoric implies but that rhetoric and the social media echo chambers have generated too much pervasive poison.