D&D General I’m Trying to Love D&D Again—and I’ve Got Some Complaints. Young Grognard posting.

KnightofCaliban said:

I'm likely going to ruffle some feathers on this one. Why are so many games just posting the alphabet spellcasting all over them? I know the way I said that was a bit rude, but I don't understand it. We're here to play as elves, paladins, dragonborn ect. Who you wanna have sex with and what you are is the last thing on my mind. I've tried running a game few times (I burned out... I just can't DM) every time I look for players I'm blown away with some of the people I get! I have three questions I put upfront before just chatting with the potential players to see if they're a good fit. It used to be two but I had to start asking "Hey I want my table to be a safe place for everyone, are you able to remove modern politics and hang-ups at the door when you sit down at my virtual table?" The amount of times I've had people have a crash out on that stating anyone who disagrees with them or is even remotely right wing isn't a human being and worthy of death is over 10. I've never seen it the other way. I've played with gay guys and they're some of my favorite to play with, dudes are funny. This posting the alphabet on a game causes me to hesitate on even looking at a game because to me it should be something that is a default and not even asked. "Be cool to everyone". Having it on the post makes me think of the people who screamed at me for just asking "IF" they could play nice with everyone...

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I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were unaware of this, but phrases like “posting the alphabet” and “remove modern politics” are often dogwhistles for people who are staunchly anti-LGBTQ+. So, it’s possible that in your attempts to express that you want your games to be a safe space for everyone, you are unintentionally sending a signal that it is likely not to be a safe space for LGBTQ+ folks, which may also account for why those who have joined your game have been particularly defensive about it. They’re starting off on the wrong foot, because we’re used to people using these turns of phrase as Trojan horses for bigotry.

Another important thing to keep in mind is, when your human rights are considered a subject of modern political debate, you don’t really have the option to “leave modern politics at the door.” I’m a transgender woman. My body is considered by about half of my country to be inherently political, so if you ask me to leave politics at the door, I can’t enter the room. I also don’t particularly want to spend my leisure time playing games with people who’s “political opinions” include thinking I’m a mentally ill man, or that I shouldn’t be allowed to use public restrooms without putting my physical safety at risk.

That doesn’t mean I won’t play a game where the DM doesn’t want sex or gender to be a significant focus. That’s fine, I’m down for a game that’s focused on a group of adventurers taking on odd jobs, going into dangerous places, killing monsters, and looting their stuff. In fact, I’m right with you in preferring that over a game where most of the table time is dedicated to emulating domestic life while exploring each other’s character backstories and relationship chemistry through dialogue. Nothing wrong with that kind of game if others enjoy playing that way, but it’ll take a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl over that any day of the week, personally. But I think if that’s what you’re looking to express, just say that. When you lead with “let’s keep modern politics out of it,” you’re the one opening the door to the discussion about what even does “modern politics” mean in this context.

I’ve had pretty good experiences with Reddit group-finding, but better ones the further away from D&D I ventured. One upside of Reddit used to be how easy it was to get a quick vibe check on applicants by hitting up their post history, but more people are hiding that now. I’ve still done a decent bit of pre-filtering that way, and built 3 regular groups that have followed me from game to game that way, all online.

Charlaquin said:

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were unaware of this, but phrases like “posting the alphabet” and “remove modern politics” are often dogwhistles for people who are staunchly anti-LGBTQ+. So, it’s possible that in your attempts to express that you want your games to be a safe space for everyone, you are unintentionally sending a signal that it is likely not to be a safe space for LGBTQ+ folks, which may also account for why those who have joined your game have been particularly defensive about it. They’re starting off on the wrong foot, because we’re used to people using these turns of phrase as Trojan horses for bigotry.

Another important thing to keep in mind is, when your human rights are considered a subject of modern political debate, you don’t really have the option to “leave modern politics at the door.” I’m a transgender woman. My body is considered by about half of my country to be inherently political, so if you ask me to leave politics at the door, I can’t enter the room. I also don’t particularly want to spend my leisure time playing games with people who’s “political opinions” include thinking I’m a mentally ill man, or that I shouldn’t be allowed to use public restrooms without putting my physical safety at risk.

That doesn’t mean I won’t play a game where the DM doesn’t want sex or gender to be a significant focus. That’s fine, I’m down for a game that’s focused on a group of adventurers taking on odd jobs, going into dangerous places, killing monsters, and looting their stuff. In fact, I’m right with you in preferring that over a game where most of the table time is dedicated to emulating domestic life while exploring each other’s character backstories and relationship chemistry through dialogue. Nothing wrong with that kind of game if others enjoy playing that way, but it’ll take a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl over that any day of the week, personally. But I think if that’s what you’re looking to express, just say that. When you lead with “let’s keep modern politics out of it,” you’re the one opening the door to the discussion about what even does “modern politics” mean in this context.

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It’s a fantastic point - if I read that in a game posting or heard it casually at a table and didn’t know anything else about the person, I’d already be making negative assumptions.

Yeah, on the LGBTQ+ topic, all I can say to the OP is: do better than this.

In general, and I feel like this goes to a lot of the rest of the post, the fact of the matter is that online gaming is going to be a total crapshoot, and it doesn't have the luxury of a lack of long-running importance or very structured play, both of which you see in matchmaking in your usual video game. You're talking about finding a group of like-minded individuals, potentially in a particular niche approach, from a sea of folks, able to meet somewhere in the middle of the space of everything, despite all of their real world realities, in a tradition where essentially anything can come into play or be a playstyle or so on. The tools we have are coarse and probably we need more StartPlayings with more tags and so on, not less.

Successfully finding a long-term group online takes two skills: clear communication about what you're looking for, and being empathic towards others who you are joining (in terms of their motivations, their styles, their experience levels, etc.). Otherwise, you need the luxury of having your own group or building a group on your own.

First post was a lot, but welcome to the forum, and here are some thoughts:

Homebrew: Really up to the DM, though a good DM consults with the players on any outward-facing HB, IMO. But I homebrew stuff like monsters and magic items all the time. I use tons of 3PP, as well. This is basically a communication issue. If you, as a player, are suggestng some HB, maybe don't do that until you are well entrenched in the campaign and have a respectful understanding of the DM. Generally, I find a lot of HB suggestions coming from players don't do a great job of taking balance into account, though I try to be as flexible on character ideas as possible.

On "Listing the Alphabet": Yikes. Framing it that way is kind of offensive, you know? Those letters are really important to some folks who have to constantly battle to be allowed to live their lives freely. So maybe don't start by framing them in what reads as a dismissive way. I agree with a "no politics at the gaming table" policy and that we have to be able to get along with people who have different perspectives. But things such as sexual orientation are not political, and while you seem to be cool with all kinds of folks, not everyone is. Thus, the "alphabet," giving pronouns at the first session, etc. It is not political to tell folks "my pronouns are they/them," for example (i.e. my spouse).

A Session 0 is a good idea to make sure everyone is on the same page with regards to how they expect to be treated and treat others.

I prefer to play in person, but due to circumstances am currently running an onlne game for my family. It's not optimal, but I still love it. I find that once the game is going, it doesn't feel that different, but I miss the mingling at the beginning and end.

On people with different ability levels: You strike me as a gamer nerd - someone who picks up games pretty quickly and probably has an intuitive grasp of the simple math required. I'm the same. I'm also a teacher, who runs D&D games for all kinds of folks, and what decades of experience has taught me is that everyone thinks differently. There are brilliant people who are not intuitive gamers, and intuitive gamers who are lousy roleplayers, and every other shade imaginable. Patience is the key, and don't give advice to another player unless it is specifically asked for. If a group is just not working for your style, that's okay. But give it a chance, and you might be surprised. My aforementioned spouse is definitely not an intuitive gamer, but they are an amazing roleplayer and make the game so much better, even if they need a few reminders about bonus actions and such.

billd91 said:

...So that's why people post about LGBTQ+ being welcome and respected. They're doing what they can to actively make it the default that everyone should be cool to each other...

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To add to this salient point, LBGTQ+ as well as other players who have run into negative experiences in group settings (neurodiverse, people with disabilities, English as a second language, etc) use these kinds of notices as signposts for themselves when considering whether they want to participate in a game.

It's helpful!

And not any different than if you came across, "This game is intended for middle school aged players, who may have have not tried a role playing game before, or only have played a few times."

KnightofCaliban said:

I'm likely going to ruffle some feathers on this one. Why are so many games just posting the alphabet spellcasting all over them?

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Because they want to be safe.

KnightofCaliban said:

Having it on the post makes me think of the people who screamed at me for just asking "IF" they could play nice with everyone...

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But unfortunately the world isn't like that. People don't always play nice with everybody. In fact, the 'alphabet' people (as you phrase it) often find themselves in unsafe situations.

Having something to filter out the people who might make certain folks feel unsafe is a useful tool. With respect, if it bothers somebody so much that they don't join that group, and instead go online to complain about it, it might be working as intended.

Dunno if that helps, but that's why it's there.

I’ve never included any sort of callouts for sex and gender for my games when I advertise; I just try to be as inclusive as possible within my friend group. My NPCs will flirt, but I don’t and don’t think I would include any deeper analysis or sexual undertones because I wouldn’t want to make anyone uncomfortable or inadvertently offend anyone. Instead, a narrative curtain just drops and a wink wink nudge nudge happens with whatever else behind the scenes.

Sexy times are definitely on my "fade to black at most" list, personally. All the more reason to have tagging, consent tools, etc. with strangers.

As for the 'alphabetsoup', it depends on where you live the percentages might be lower then in other parts of the world. Some are higher, some are lower. A the results from my home country in 2024: The Netherlands has 2.7 million LGBTQIA people

Google some trends about percentual changes in the last half decade or so... Those numbers have risen drastically! Especially amongst the younger demographic. Why that is... This is probably not the place to discuss that.

Personally, I don't care, but I prefer that people introduce themselves first as a person, before they start demanding what pronounce I use... But when you're essentially doing rando groups on the Internet, you have very little say in who you play with. If you go to certain sites or respond to certain ads for groups without xyz, be prepared to feel very uncomfortable on the other side of the spectrum... The world changes, you better change with it, or be left out again...

About six years ago the pandemic hit, people couldn't leave the house, so many, many folks started to do stuff at home online, including pnp RPGs. We've always had RPGs where the 'G' was very small (RPg), things like LARP (Mind's Eye Theatre), extremely rules light RPGs, folks playing D&D as if combat was a toxic substance, etc. Some systems were more or less 'games'. But as everyone moved online, pnp RPGs became more popular, as folks suddenly realized that pnp RPGs are NOT a bunch of nerdy grognard playing D&D, people tried other things and likes it.... When people were allowed out of their house again, many left, but many stayed. Hence the enormous pool of different people that will play games and gamestyles you don't like. You just need to be far more descerning in how you pick your games. Not just the DM, but also the other players. Expectations need to be clear, from everyone! This doesn't just mean for folks playing in a rando/new group, it is also essential for existing groups starting a new adventure.

Just realize that maybe the online DMs have seen what they can run, who they can run it for and prefer something different from what you prefer, thus maybe slim pickings, or you're just looking in the wrong places.

As for third party supplements, it really depends on who is writing what for whoom, there is now so many stuff available, just reading everything would be impossible. Again, you need to filter better, identify what you're looking for and ignore everything else.

And while I'm currently on hiatus as a DM (someone else is running a 3 session oneshot), I've been DMing for a while again, a D&D campaign in a megadungeon, heavily focused on combat. Our group enjoys it (whoom I've known for ~35 years), but we're also running small one-shots through that for variation's sake. Some will just be something in another setting, someone else DMing, others will be completely different systems (something like Mothership, The Spire or Blades in the Dark)...