D&D 5E (2024) Ravenloft: The Horrors Within preorder page lists the book's contents

Paul Farquhar · Saturday at 10:08 AM

QuentinGeorge said:
Yes, and you know people are talking about the campaign setting, not the two modules. (The second which doesn't even sync up with the first one, let alone the later setting). But you are persisting with this for some reason.

Where do you think the original adventure was set?! It wasn't Greyhawk! You are doing the equivalent of claiming the 5.5 Starter Set invented the Borderlands, or Wookipedia invented the Star Wars universe! Ravenloft invented Strahd, the eponymous castle, the land of Barovia, the Mists, Madam Eva and Tarokka (including the original art). Gryphon Hill added Mordentshire, Azlin, and the nightmare nature of the land.

It's not unusual for settings to first be described in adventures. Krynn was first described in DL1, and didn't get a setting book until 3 years later. More recently Radiant Citadel did the same.

The 2nd edition boxed set was a half-assed attempt to convert the existing AD&D Horror setting into a Call of Cthulhu and World of Darkness competitor at the time when those games where threatening to overtake AD&D.

I know all this because I was there.

Mecheon · Saturday at 12:54 PM

Also let's be brutally honest here: The original Ravenloft kind of carries the system. There's a reason they trialed bringing it back by just redoing the original adventure all over again

I have a Strahd Lego minifig on my desk for a reason. Other Darklords don't that recognition.

BB Shockwave · Saturday at 2:32 PM

TravDoc42 said:
I found the art here! And I agree, the Relentless killers were my faves from the 2021 book, so I'm excited for this update!!

Thanks a lot, that is an useful site!
They have a picture of the new DM screen as well there.

New Ravenloft: The Horrors Within DM Screen Unveiled

We take a closer look at the new Dungeon Master’s screen that's being released as a tie-in to the upcoming Ravenloft: The Horrors Within D&D supplement.

dungeonsanddragonsfan.com

M.L. Martin · Saturday at 3:01 PM

Paul Farquhar said:
Where do you think the original adventure was set?! It wasn't Greyhawk! You are doing the equivalent of claiming the 5.5 Starter Set invented the Borderlands, or Wookipedia invented the Star Wars universe! Ravenloft invented Strahd, the eponymous castle, the land of Barovia, the Mists, Madam Eva and Tarokka (including the original art). Gryphon Hill added Mordentshire, Azlin, and the nightmare nature of the land.

Distinguo: I6 has the choking fog, but not the Mists as the setting would develop them. And while the card reading is part of the module, the Tarokka and art don't appear until 1992's Forbidden Lore.

Here's what I6 has to say about Barovia:

I6 Ravenloft said:
A perpetual rolling blackness of thunderclouds casts a gray pall over the land. The darker silhouette of Castle Ravenloft looks over the valley from its 1,000 foot pillar of rock.
Castle Ravenloft dominates the small village of Barovia. The castle stands high atop a natural pillar of rock against the cliffs to the north of the village. The dark Svalich woods surround the village and cliffs. Use Map 1 to see the relative locations of the town and Castle Ravenloft.
The road to the village and lands of Barovia goes through ancient iron gates, controlled by the will of Count Strahd. There are only two gates, one east of the village and one west of the castle crossroads up the mountain. The gates open when the PCs arrive but close after they enter Barovia. The gates will not open for the PCs again until Strahd is destroyed.
There is a deathly stillness in the dark Barovian woods. Yet the woods are patrolled constantly by the wolves and serving beasts of Count Strahd.
No one has left Barovia for centuries. This is because of the trapping fog that exists everywhere in Barovia. Once it is breathed,it infuses itself around a character's vital organs as a neutralized poison. The fog does not taste or smell any different than normal fog. It does not harm characters as long as they continue to breathe the air in Barovia. However, when they leave Barovia, the poison becomes active. Characters must save vs. poison or start to choke. Unless choking characters reenter Barovia within 24 hours, they die. The choking stops as soon as they breathe the fog again.
The gypsies were given a potion by Strahd that cancels the effects of the fog. This potion is jealously guarded by Madam Eva, who buried it in a secret place. It is impossible for the PCs to discover the potion. The fog is magically produced by Strahd and disappears entirely upon his destruction.
The poor villagers of Barovia have been terrorized for centuries by "the devil" Strahd. Only the town priest and the few survivors of the second ruling house of Barovia have the will to offer more than just personal resistance to Strahd. No villager has left Barovia for centuries. Those who tried never returned, dying from the vile snapping teeth of the Barovian wolves and the choking deadly fog.

The adventure starts "in an old inn, a few hours march east of the gates of Barovia."

I6 is a setting to the same degree as the Keep on the Borderlands is a setting, IMO. Claiming it's a distinct campaign milieu in the same way as Greyhawk or the 2E iteration is, IMO, an equivocation.

I think it was to account for I6 that the Black Box included the concept of conjunctions:

Paul Farquhar said:
The 2nd edition boxed set was a half-assed attempt to convert the existing AD&D Horror setting into a Call of Cthulhu and World of Darkness competitor at the time when those games where threatening to overtake AD&D.

I know all this because I was there.

Given that the setting launched a year before Vampire: The Masquerade, I think your timeline and reasoning is a bit off.

QuentinGeorge · Saturday at 3:36 PM

M.L. Martin said:
Distinguo: I6 has the choking fog, but not the Mists as the setting would develop them. And while the card reading is part of the module, the Tarokka and art don't appear until 1992's Forbidden Lore.

Here's what I6 has to say about Barovia:

The adventure starts "in an old inn, a few hours march east of the gates of Barovia."

I6 is a setting to the same degree as the Keep on the Borderlands is a setting, IMO. Claiming it's a distinct campaign milieu in the same way as Greyhawk or the 2E iteration is, IMO, an equivocation.

I think it was to account for I6 that the Black Box included the concept of conjunctions:

View attachment 434930

Given that the setting launched a year before Vampire: The Masquerade, I think your timeline and reasoning is a bit off.

Ravenloft was an answer to CoC, yes, but as you points out above, here nothing to do with VtM (VtM might be influenced by Ravenloft, not the other way around), regardless of who was "there".

Paul Farquhar · Saturday at 5:50 PM

QuentinGeorge said:
Ravenloft was an answer to CoC, yes, but as you points out above, here nothing to do with VtM (VtM might be influenced by Ravenloft, not the other way around), regardless of who was "there".

I’ll concede that one. I guess they were both tapping in to the same early 90s floppy haired edgy angsty goth vibe.

Remathilis · Sunday at 5:03 PM

Paul Farquhar said:
Where do you think the original adventure was set?! It wasn't Greyhawk! You are doing the equivalent of claiming the 5.5 Starter Set invented the Borderlands, or Wookipedia invented the Star Wars universe! Ravenloft invented Strahd, the eponymous castle, the land of Barovia, the Mists, Madam Eva and Tarokka (including the original art). Gryphon Hill added Mordentshire, Azlin, and the nightmare nature of the land.

Its far more important to discuss what I6/I8 did NOT include: The Dark Powers. The larger setting hinges on the Dark Powers and the fact they have trapped Strahd et all into the Domains of Dread. I6 at no point discusses the Dark Powers. Strahd is not trapped in Barovia, he simply has no reason leave. I8 is even a greater afront as Azalin, Strahd, and Godfrey all exist in Mordentshire without a hint of them being trapped in different domains. That of course makes sense in context because as of I6/I8, Ravenloft wasn't a campaign setting but an adventure setting. The Dark Powers aren't there because the Dark Powers aren't needed to keep the major players separated into domains. The whole notion of Dark Lords, Domains, the Prison System, none of that exists in I6/I8. Its not needed. Your supposed to put Barovia and/or Mordent into whatever setting you are running.

So when people are discussing Ravenloft the CAMPAIGN setting, they are discussing a very different set of expectations than Ravenloft the ADVENTURE setting. And Ravenloft has flip-flopped between the two (I6 and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft both are designed to drop Barovia into any world, while 2e, Arthaus, and CoS onwards are designed for Barovia to be a domain of dread). There isn't really a good way to square the two except to assume one supercedes the other and of the two approaches, the Campaign Setting has proven more resilient than the Adventure Setting.

Paul Farquhar · Sunday at 5:46 PM

Remathilis said:
Strahd is not trapped in Barovia, he simply has no reason leave

Strahd is not making any effort to escape Barovia in CoS. It only matters if it forms part of the plot. I seem to recall I6 had a selection of different objectives for Strahd, including lifting his curse, which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

Remathilis said:
I8 is even a greater afront as Azalin, Strahd, and Godfrey all exist in Mordentshire without a hint of them being trapped in different domains

It’s more accurate to say that the boxed set was an affront to I8. But actually there is no contradiction. Azlin is not yet a dark lord, Darkkon doesn’t exist yet, and Strahd is a psychic projection and a parallel universe twin with the same name and appearance but very different character to mess with the players heads.

M.L. Martin · Sunday at 6:00 PM

Paul Farquhar said:
Strahd is not making any effort to escape Barovia in CoS. It only matters if it forms part of the plot. I seem to recall I6 had a selection of different objectives for Strahd, including lifting his curse, which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

One of Strahd's possible goals in I6 is leaving Barovia by swapping identities with one of the PCs via polymorph.

Paul Farquhar said:
It’s more accurate to say that the boxed set was an affront to I8. But actually there is no contradiction. Azlin is not yet a dark lord, Darkkon doesn’t exist yet, and Strahd is a psychic projection and a parallel universe twin with the same name and appearance but very different character to mess with the players heads.

I10 (not I8) was something the design team didn't quite seem to have a handle on integrating, probably because the module itself is something of a mess (reportedly gang-written by the whole TSR staff just before deadline) and the questions it raises about the reality of I6 and whether/how they exist in the same world. They keep the events ambiguous, with Strahd and Azalin not remembering more than bits and pieces of what happened in Mordent, and a close read of the Black Box suggests they even changed their minds on when it happened relative to the present of the setting.

Paul Farquhar · Sunday at 6:08 PM

M.L. Martin said:
they even changed their minds on when it happened relative to the present of the setting.

I view time in Ravenloft as being circular, or maybe Jeremy Bearimy. It resolves a lot of issues, and plays into the dreamlike sense of unreality which is such an important element of gothic fiction.