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<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 6166715" data-attributes="member: 6680772">Except for OD&amp;D, 1e, and 2e.&nbsp; Granted he was only the best of the human classes in BXCMI, because the Dwarf and Halfling classes had the best saves there.At level 17, when the fighter tops out his saves (two levels faster than the cleric, and four levels faster than the magic-user and thief), the 1e fighter has the best Paralyzation/Death Magic save -- the Cleric has to go to level 19 to beat it...by one point.&nbsp; He's got the best Petrification/Polymorph save, period.&nbsp; He's tied with the Magic-User for best Rod/Staff/Wand save.&nbsp; Both Magic-user and Thief have to go to level 21 to beat him (by one point for the thief, two points for the magic-user).&nbsp; He's got by far the best Breath Weapon save, no one comes close no matter how high they level.&nbsp; And again he ties with the magic-user for the best Spell save, until the magic-user gets to level 21, where he beats the fighter by two points.&nbsp; This is also the fighter's worst save -- he needs to roll a 6 or better (70% chance of success).In TSR D&amp;D, saves were the fighter's thing.&nbsp; He advanced them faster and better than any other class.&nbsp; Even at the end, when everyone's over level 21, he's first or second in all saves, and he doesn't lag behind the leaders by more than 2.So I've got no problem with D&amp;DN fighters being save machines.&nbsp; Heck, after reading ppaladin123's math breakdown, I don't think their save abilities are strong enough.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 6166715, member: 6680772"] Except for OD&D, 1e, and 2e. Granted he was only the best of the human classes in BXCMI, because the Dwarf and Halfling classes had the best saves there. At level 17, when the fighter tops out his saves (two levels faster than the cleric, and four levels faster than the magic-user and thief), the 1e fighter has the best Paralyzation/Death Magic save -- the Cleric has to go to level 19 to beat it...by one point. He's got the best Petrification/Polymorph save, period. He's tied with the Magic-User for best Rod/Staff/Wand save. Both Magic-user and Thief have to go to level 21 to beat him (by one point for the thief, two points for the magic-user). He's got by far the best Breath Weapon save, no one comes close no matter how high they level. And again he ties with the magic-user for the best Spell save, until the magic-user gets to level 21, where he beats the fighter by two points. This is also the fighter's worst save -- he needs to roll a 6 or better (70% chance of success). In TSR D&D, saves were the fighter's [i]thing[/i]. He advanced them faster and better than any other class. Even at the end, when everyone's over level 21, he's first or second in all saves, and he doesn't lag behind the leaders by more than 2. So I've got no problem with D&DN fighters being save machines. Heck, after reading ppaladin123's math breakdown, I don't think their save abilities are strong [i]enough[/i]. [/QUOTE]

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