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<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 6167475" data-attributes="member: 6680772">Basically, where I come down is that there is none of my regular playstyles are compatible with the 3e paradigm of fighter saves.&nbsp; If I'm playing an exploratory dungeon crawl, then folks generally have their roles spelled out.&nbsp; The rogue is scouting ahead, finding traps, opening locks.&nbsp; If there's a fight, he's going to harry from a distance, or attack the enemies' flank.&nbsp; The mage contributes with utility magic most of the time, and long range artillery if it comes to combat.&nbsp; The cleric is going provide support magic, healing, and some back-up melee combat ability.&nbsp; The fighter's job is to fight.&nbsp; He is the first and last line of defense.&nbsp; So I want him to be clearly superior to the others when combat breaks out.&nbsp; That's his niche.&nbsp; And that means he has to have high defenses across the board.&nbsp; And in this playstyle, combat is only a small part of the whole experience.&nbsp; Most of it is figuring out logistical puzzles, searching, things like that.&nbsp; Things where the other classes have opportunities to contribute more than the fighter.Alternatively, I may be playing for a heroic fantasy game.&nbsp; In this case combat becomes a bigger part of the game, and everybody contributes.&nbsp; But at the higher levels, when the mage is calling down meteors, and the cleric is raising the dead, what is the fighter to do?&nbsp; Well, many things, but one of them is to be absolutely indomitable.&nbsp; His body and mind trained to such a level that he dodges dragon breath with ease, and throws off spell effects with sheer determination and willpower.I don't have as negative an attitude to 3e as some, but I do think that their approach to the fighter, particularly as represented by saves, was a mistake.&nbsp; This <a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?643122-How-did-3-0-end-up-so-out-of-whack&amp;p=15817982#post15817982" target="_blank">post</a> gives a good breakdown of the issues.&nbsp; Random Wizard's <a href="http://randomwizard.blogspot.jp/2013/03/skip-williams-interview.html" target="_blank">interview</a> with Skip Williams suggests that it essentially came from setting strict &quot;mundane&quot; limits on fighters and thieves.&nbsp; Given the abilities all kinds of casters get at higher levels, I don't think a +3.3 on all saving throws for fighters is especially out of line.&nbsp; Like I said, I'd like to be even stronger.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 6167475, member: 6680772"] Basically, where I come down is that there is none of my regular playstyles are compatible with the 3e paradigm of fighter saves. If I'm playing an exploratory dungeon crawl, then folks generally have their roles spelled out. The rogue is scouting ahead, finding traps, opening locks. If there's a fight, he's going to harry from a distance, or attack the enemies' flank. The mage contributes with utility magic most of the time, and long range artillery if it comes to combat. The cleric is going provide support magic, healing, and some back-up melee combat ability. The fighter's job is to fight. He is the first and last line of defense. So I want him to be clearly superior to the others when combat breaks out. That's his niche. And that means he has to have high defenses across the board. And in this playstyle, combat is only a small part of the whole experience. Most of it is figuring out logistical puzzles, searching, things like that. Things where the other classes have opportunities to contribute more than the fighter. Alternatively, I may be playing for a heroic fantasy game. In this case combat becomes a bigger part of the game, and everybody contributes. But at the higher levels, when the mage is calling down meteors, and the cleric is raising the dead, what is the fighter to do? Well, many things, but one of them is to be absolutely indomitable. His body and mind trained to such a level that he dodges dragon breath with ease, and throws off spell effects with sheer determination and willpower. I don't have as negative an attitude to 3e as some, but I do think that their approach to the fighter, particularly as represented by saves, was a mistake. This [URL="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?643122-How-did-3-0-end-up-so-out-of-whack&p=15817982#post15817982"]post[/URL] gives a good breakdown of the issues. Random Wizard's [URL="http://randomwizard.blogspot.jp/2013/03/skip-williams-interview.html"]interview[/URL] with Skip Williams suggests that it essentially came from setting strict "mundane" limits on fighters and thieves. Given the abilities all kinds of casters get at higher levels, I don't think a +3.3 on all saving throws for fighters is especially out of line. Like I said, I'd like to be even stronger. [/QUOTE]

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