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07/29/2013 - Legends & Lore It’s Mathemagical!
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<blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 6163543" data-attributes="member: 17077"><p>I'm glad to hear that they realize this and are working on solutions. With so few changes to the game's core math in well over a year, I was afraid that what we had was pretty much set.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The +1 to +6 bonus sounds fine. +12 does not. That large of a bonus seems contrary to the goal of bounded accuracy. This is very close to the total bonuses in 4e. A 20th level character in next can have a +17 total bonus, assuming a 20 ability score. A 20th level character with a 20 ability score in 4e had a +20 (10 from half level, 5 from skill training, 5 from ability). So a whopping 3 point difference. That's "bounded"? I think not!</p><p></p><p>I also strongly dislike the class bonus to all checks with an entire ability score (such as Rangers getting a bonus to all Wisdom checks). What if I prefer to have skills in my game? It sounds to me like the +12 bonus is the maximum, so any skill that uses Wisdom would be useless to a Ranger, who already has the maximum bonus for all Wisdom checks. I may be wrong, but that's how it sounds to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds good, though the number of times monsters can invoke these effects is a much bigger problem than the Save DC. Ghouls, for example, get 3 attacks per round and can inflict paralysis on each and every attack. Even with a low Save DC, when you're having to make a save 3 times a round, you're going to fail eventually. It's worse when you have more than one such creature attacking you. A character with 3 ghouls attacking him might have to make as many as NINE saving throws per round! Even with a low save DC, the odds are good you'll fail at least one of those. This is the bigger problem that needs to be fixed. Also, why are low level monsters ever getting multiple attacks, anyway? If a low level fighter doesn't get to make 3 attacks per round, no low level monster should be able to, either.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lowering caster's Save DCs will no longer be necessary, now that characters are getting a +6 to +12 bonus to saving throws. That more than makes up for the +5 spellcasting bonus that casters get! And factoring the spell level into the Save DC is the worst bit of news I've heard. The level-neutral save DCs was one of the things about Next's magic system that I praised. This is just going to have the same problems it caused in 3e, where low level spells became all but useless.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Falling Icicle, post: 6163543, member: 17077"] I'm glad to hear that they realize this and are working on solutions. With so few changes to the game's core math in well over a year, I was afraid that what we had was pretty much set. The +1 to +6 bonus sounds fine. +12 does not. That large of a bonus seems contrary to the goal of bounded accuracy. This is very close to the total bonuses in 4e. A 20th level character in next can have a +17 total bonus, assuming a 20 ability score. A 20th level character with a 20 ability score in 4e had a +20 (10 from half level, 5 from skill training, 5 from ability). So a whopping 3 point difference. That's "bounded"? I think not! I also strongly dislike the class bonus to all checks with an entire ability score (such as Rangers getting a bonus to all Wisdom checks). What if I prefer to have skills in my game? It sounds to me like the +12 bonus is the maximum, so any skill that uses Wisdom would be useless to a Ranger, who already has the maximum bonus for all Wisdom checks. I may be wrong, but that's how it sounds to me. Sounds good, though the number of times monsters can invoke these effects is a much bigger problem than the Save DC. Ghouls, for example, get 3 attacks per round and can inflict paralysis on each and every attack. Even with a low Save DC, when you're having to make a save 3 times a round, you're going to fail eventually. It's worse when you have more than one such creature attacking you. A character with 3 ghouls attacking him might have to make as many as NINE saving throws per round! Even with a low save DC, the odds are good you'll fail at least one of those. This is the bigger problem that needs to be fixed. Also, why are low level monsters ever getting multiple attacks, anyway? If a low level fighter doesn't get to make 3 attacks per round, no low level monster should be able to, either. Lowering caster's Save DCs will no longer be necessary, now that characters are getting a +6 to +12 bonus to saving throws. That more than makes up for the +5 spellcasting bonus that casters get! And factoring the spell level into the Save DC is the worst bit of news I've heard. The level-neutral save DCs was one of the things about Next's magic system that I praised. This is just going to have the same problems it caused in 3e, where low level spells became all but useless. [/QUOTE]
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