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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 3980662" data-attributes="member: 48965">To swing this argument to another pendulum...I'm not to keen on them putting half-orcs on the DDI.  Yes, they said there will be compilations of DDI material for those who choose not to or won't subscribe...but I just don't like it for such an iconic race that has no counterpoint so far in 4e.Dragonborn vs. Half-orcs:  I'm not seeing the same niche here at all...except for the whole "me strong" vibe.  Dragonborn aren't conflicted between two worlds at all, they have a common culture and history so are really only outsiders in the sense that an elf or dwarf is an outsider in a commmunity of another race.  Half-orcs on the other hand are the people without a past, abandoned, and often blatantly discriminated by their parents people as well as the other races (through no real fault of their own) and are forced to live on the fringes of society and faced with the choice to give in to their savage side and become monsters or become heroes (perhaps through that same savagery) and carve some kind of niche in one of the two worlds that hate them.  I still haven't seen a race in 4e that fills this niche.Tieflings vs. Half-orcs: IMHO this race is closer to the niche half-orcs held than the dragonborn, but...it's still not the same.  These are the people whose empire bargained with hell and lost.  They are the struggle of evil vs. good or redemption for the past vs. damnation in the future .  Certainly not the same as the savage vs. civilization struggle of the half-orc.  I guess the best way I can explain it is...tieflings=Elric, while half-orcs=Conan.  Totally different themes and explorations with these two characters.  Personally I wonder how tieflings are able to adventure and move through the societies of the other races.  It seems like they embody (even moreso than orcs) everything the other races would hate and want to destroy on sight, especially since they still bear the taint of their ancestors(who tried to conquer them) in a very apparent physical manifestation, and demons are a very real thing in the POL setting.  But, I don't really have all the facts about tieflings, so the designers may have already accounted for this.</blockquote>

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