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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 5063184" data-attributes="member: 65152">Forget &quot;math bug&quot; and repeat after me.....&quot;the best damn feat in the game&quot;.&nbsp; If you don't take it you're vastly underpowered compared to those that do and that will be felt at the table.&nbsp; One of the things that 4e does very well is that every party member contributes almost equally to any given encounter (dailies aside).&nbsp; I have younger players at my table and I don't want to have anyone feeling like they are not contributing, or that they are substantially less powerful than their team mates.&nbsp; The only thing Expertise does is show if a given player has system mastery or not (or it's a feat &quot;tax&quot; and I despise that even more).&nbsp; I just don't need or want that kind of variance at my table.&nbsp; I've decided against implementing it this way however as I'm just going to use the adventure tools to adjust monster defenses on my side of the screen so I don't have to mess with PC's not being able to use characters as printed from character builder.ggory:Defenses follow this approximate pattern:Fort/Will/Ref:&nbsp; 10 + level + (0 - 9)This range doesn't change at higher levels although you can pick up the defense feats (+2 @ heroic and +4 at epic) for any of these, so this shifts the range from 0 - 9 to 2 - 11 for example and is mostly good for boosting that defense that started at a +0 and lost 3 points because if was the stat pair you didn't bump while leveling so 0 - 3 + 6 = +3AC:&nbsp; 10 + level + (5 - 10)The 5 at the low end of this can go up if the player spends feats along the way to get better armor such as cloth -&gt; leather -&gt; hide&nbsp;&nbsp; chain -&gt; scale -&gt; plate&nbsp;&nbsp; no shield -&gt; light shield -&gt; heavy shield&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-weapon defense with a weapon with the defensive property.Best examples (@ level 1) would be:Fort/Will/Ref: 10 + 5 (20 starting stat) + 2 (class bonus) + 2 (race bonus) *AC (Paladin or Fighter with feat):&nbsp; 10 + 8 (plate) + 2 (shield)*Note that I'm not sure there is a race with a +2 bonus or that you can align it correctly with a class bonus so I'm not positive if this is even possible.&nbsp; Certainly you can get a +1 racial bonus such as Human so maybe it's just 0 - 10I would not want to change these variations because that makes characters different, but NOT better than one another.&nbsp; Some will have higher Fort and others might have a higher Will, but if you get rid of the variation you may as well throw out the whole system and just replace the to-hit roll with (11 +/- level difference) and forget the modifiers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 5063184, member: 65152"] Forget "math bug" and repeat after me....."the best damn feat in the game". If you don't take it you're vastly underpowered compared to those that do and that will be felt at the table. One of the things that 4e does very well is that every party member contributes almost equally to any given encounter (dailies aside). I have younger players at my table and I don't want to have anyone feeling like they are not contributing, or that they are substantially less powerful than their team mates. The only thing Expertise does is show if a given player has system mastery or not (or it's a feat "tax" and I despise that even more). I just don't need or want that kind of variance at my table. I've decided against implementing it this way however as I'm just going to use the adventure tools to adjust monster defenses on my side of the screen so I don't have to mess with PC's not being able to use characters as printed from character builder. ggory: Defenses follow this approximate pattern: Fort/Will/Ref: 10 + level + (0 - 9) This range doesn't change at higher levels although you can pick up the defense feats (+2 @ heroic and +4 at epic) for any of these, so this shifts the range from 0 - 9 to 2 - 11 for example and is mostly good for boosting that defense that started at a +0 and lost 3 points because if was the stat pair you didn't bump while leveling so 0 - 3 + 6 = +3 AC: 10 + level + (5 - 10) The 5 at the low end of this can go up if the player spends feats along the way to get better armor such as cloth -> leather -> hide chain -> scale -> plate no shield -> light shield -> heavy shield or 2-weapon defense with a weapon with the defensive property. Best examples (@ level 1) would be: Fort/Will/Ref: 10 + 5 (20 starting stat) + 2 (class bonus) + 2 (race bonus) * AC (Paladin or Fighter with feat): 10 + 8 (plate) + 2 (shield) *Note that I'm not sure there is a race with a +2 bonus or that you can align it correctly with a class bonus so I'm not positive if this is even possible. Certainly you can get a +1 racial bonus such as Human so maybe it's just 0 - 10 I would not want to change these variations because that makes characters different, but NOT better than one another. Some will have higher Fort and others might have a higher Will, but if you get rid of the variation you may as well throw out the whole system and just replace the to-hit roll with (11 +/- level difference) and forget the modifiers. [/QUOTE]

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