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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 909095" data-attributes="member: 3146">This is the first I've heard about any CRs being assigned to the Pit Fiend or Hamatula. When it first came out, people were guessing that it's CR might be increased a little or that it might stay at 16. My reaction to the Osyluth is that it looks about right for a CR 9 monster. . . against 3.0e PCs although it's probably a little stronger than most 3.0e CR 9 outsiders (that didn't get CR 9 from advancement or character levels). In 3.5, I suspect that the Osyluth will be an extremely deadly monster (especially since the Osyluth's main weaknesses have been addressed--he's got more hit points and better saves which should let him live long enough to use his spell like abilities to make himself untouchable) for his CR. However, I've seen no CRs on any of the other creatures and just about everything else I've seen of 3.5 speaks volumes about Wizards dismissing their best designers so I don't want to extrapolate that other CRs will be accurately revised just because the Osyluth's appears to have been (working under the highly dubious assumption that 3.5e won't effectively drop PCs' power levels to the equivalent of 3.0e PCs one or two levels lower).However, from all appearances--and especially if Piratecat's suggestion that the cost of stat enhancing items is dramatically increased pans out--3.5e spellcasters will have dramatically fewer effective ways to enhance their allies than 3.0e spellcasters, making 3.5e fighters, barbarians, paladins, and rangers somewhat weaker as well. The changes we've seen to spells indicate that buffing spellcasters will no longer be a viable type of character and that save or die focussed spellcasters are getting hammered as well (by a combination of removing or neutering save or die spells (Hold Person and Disintegrate) and increasing monster saves (the Osyluth's saves have doubled but his CR only went up by 3)), and that PC blaster spellcasters are also seriously weakened by the changes to Haste and increases in monsters' saves (and the 3e increase in monster's hit points and widespread elemental immunities had already rendered blaster wizards a suboptimal type).Consequently, PCs will have much fewer options (which I think is a bad thing--if I wanted every PC to be like every other, I'd play a less flexible system; the revisions in 3.5 seem to go a long way towards making the differentiation 3e brought to spellcasters vanish) and PC parties are likely to be weaker across the board in 3.5. Monsters, OTOH, even accounting for the change in CR, seem to be a bit stronger. Now, it appears that lots of people on this board don't see that as a problem--apparently their PCs were walking all over their monsters on a regular basis. My experience, however, is very different. Encounters that are supposed to be challenging have usually taxed my parties to the limit and I've seen plenty of "tough" encounters that were just a few points away from being TPKs. If our PCs had been limited to 3.5e capabilities, the parties would have been torn apart.</blockquote>

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