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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 13706" data-attributes="member: 78">I included rogue examples with Haste because I gave the rogue Boots of Speed+Elvenkind.  Since the character can do the haste himself, I included it in the damage.However, I did forget that the Barbarian has a potion of Haste.  Given that it's a one shot, though, I don't think it should be included in normal damage figures.Also, the wizard in my group likes to go Haste + Shield/Fly/Improved Invis on the first round, then lots of attack spells afterwards.  He doesn't share very well. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Therefore, I don't count on him hasting anyone besides himself under normal circumstances.The point is that I'm trying to provide examples that have "more complete" characters that I might actually play, instead of "Fighter, 18 Str, focus+spec" and "rogue: 18 dex, finess, focus, ambidex&2 weapon"Also, I find the varying damage versus varying AC to show some problems with the rogue.  Against an AC 25, stunned opponent (stun rules for a rogue), the Raging Barbarian is just a few points behind the Hasted Rogue.  I'm not seeing some wimpy rogue doing more than twice the damage of a fighter type even against a stunned opponent.  I'm seeing a fighter type about even in damage against the rogue DESPITE a stunned opponent.  BTW:Barbarian: Half Orc with Greatsword.Rogue: Human with Greatsword - who needs Finess when you can have 18 STR!  The fighter levels were well worth the loss of 1d6 sneak attack.</blockquote>

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