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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JoeGKushner" data-source="post: 4817807" data-attributes="member: 1129">If you say 2+2 is 5... well, yes, it can be argued against. having feelings and/or an opinion doesn't make it valid. And at the end of the day, 2+2 is still 4. And if it bothers your suspension of the game to the point where you won't play it... there are a ton of great games out there that may encompass your play style. No matter what your feelings on 4e, it's not going to change the mechanics of the game. If you look at the game and the underlying assumptions and say, "this sucks" and can't play it because of that, I respect your feelings. If you say no one can play it that way, well, that's where the 'feeling's go I suppose. Ah, we're talking about WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE in the game as opposed to how is the game playing now. To me, those are seperate issues.Good in theory but if the new edition captures a larger consumer base than it loses, factually wrong. The game can continue to piss off its old fans for decades. Games Workshop has certainly proven this model true to a point.And yet... it's not really about why it doesn't work for some people because on the other hand, it does work for... other people and changing it to appease X means you piss off Y. I can agree with that. But only if they're actually, you know, playing the game. People who are armchair gamers sitting back and reading and doing zero playing, to me, have about as much say as people who illegally steal things online and think that companies should listen to them because they're read all the products. Perhaps it could have been debated by the creators of the game before hand but that stall is empty and the horses are on the field.It doesn't mean that future supplements may not take that rotue but unless this is a discussion for tearing down the entire structure of the game to make martial feats more believable, it's certainly seems outside the scope. But it's not going to. Unless they hosue rule everything from the ground up, reality is not going to suddenly change itself as if the X-Men's old foe Proteus popped up around the corner. I guess I'm questioning the people who don't actually seem to be playing the game and are instead playing another game and armchair gaming 4e.All true. But it doesn't change mid-stream. Perhaps I'm underestimating WoTC but I don't think we're going to see another edition of D&D for say, 5 years. With that in mind, I'm just not seeing a lot of utility in the complaints which generally fail to offer anything outside of "I don't like it." We agree to disagree. The specific problem 'didn't need to occur' is an opinion and those who have it, and if I've misread someone, let me know, from those who actually aren't playing the game. Why should someone who isn't playing the game have an equally valid opinion as someone who is? For example, Kamikaze Midget, are you playing 4e?</blockquote>

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