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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 4827540" data-attributes="member: 80487">Alex 319, a rules-heavy game like Hero or 3E is not the only alternative to a rules-heavy game like 4E. All it takes to do "situation first" is an attitude open to it -- which means not designing a complex structure to get in the way of it. That would probably apply to any TSR (or almost any other) RPG of the 1970s-'80s; it is certainly the case with the original D&D game. What WotC has done is create a situation in which one either invests heavily in abstract rules or has little use for the game. Take away the powers and feats, and whatever what's left would resemble, it probably would not pass for 4E. The players' investment in choosing from the menu to define their characters naturally comes to define how they expect to play; they don't want to get "ripped off".It's a one-two punch of complexity and abstraction, and the "economy" of player power via character builds makes that hard to turn aside. That one should even want to is perhaps not very sensible. It's a fine design for the purposes for which it was designed. So are RuneQuest and Harnmaster; so are Risus and The Pool and FATE. If the shoe doesn't fit, find one that does. A lot of experience convinces me that it's easier to make a fairly simple game complicated in whatever ways one likes than to simplify one that is already very complicated.</blockquote>