Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
11 Reasons Why I Prefer D&D 4E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 4444532" data-attributes="member: 5868"><p><strong>No long-term advance planning for PC character development.</strong></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure this is true, as stat requirements almost make it more critical that you careful consider future feat and power preferences before you assign stats. Retraining does eliminate a lot of feat planning, admittedly.</p><p></p><p><strong>No class is useless in a specific fight.</strong></p><p></p><p>Heck, yes. Best feature of 4E IMO -- plus 4E significantly increased the importance of team tactics, which is a good feature IMO.</p><p></p><p><strong>Easier high-level PC creation.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Mostly, yes. I'd argue that it's much easier for high-level spellcasters, and much harder for high-level melee characters.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighters are now actually interesting.</strong> </p><p></p><p>3E Fighters were interesting too, if you actually took advantage of the range of feats -- orders of magnitude better than prior edition fighters. I'll grant that 4E fighters are now a step more interesting than even their 3E counterparts, though.</p><p></p><p><strong>Less-complex high-level spellcasters.</strong></p><p></p><p>Goodness, yes.</p><p></p><p><strong>Rituals.</strong></p><p></p><p>I like these mechanics, but I'm disappointed with the number, and the fact that rituals have essentially killed the prior "clever use of flexible spells" that you could do. It's fun to play "101 uses for a 1st level spell" -- not quite as fun now.</p><p></p><p><strong>Skill challenges.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Frankly, I see this as a mechanic that isn't unique to 4E -- easy enough to port it back to 3E (and even 2E's NWPs with some further tweaking). The fact that they screwed up the initial SC release in the core rules still irqs me.</p><p></p><p><strong>Minions.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Again, not a unique-to-4E mechanic. Take almost any 3E monster, reduce to 1 hp = minion.</p><p></p><p><strong>Easier high-level NPC creation.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Yes and no. If you weren't anal about having every single spell, feat, and skill point accounted for, high level NPCs in 3E aren't really that hard -- you just put together those items that you need for play and wing the rest.</p><p></p><p><strong>Easier monster creation/modification.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Creation, yes. I'm not convinced that systematic modification is a strength of 4E. Point modification is neither significantly easier or harder than before.</p><p></p><p><strong>In-depth discussion on building encounters and monster roles.</strong> </p><p></p><p>I wouldn't say that the concepts are any better or worse, but certainly including the design discussion in the DMG is one of the smartest decisions made for that book, and results in a significantly more useful DMG than prior editions (where the DMG was just the place to srtore magic items).</p><p></p><p>My criticisms of 4E: Missing classes plus limited rituals/spells and magic items compared to prior editions core rules make the initial release feel incomplete; changes to the base "fluff" of D&D feel like "change for change sake" that I have to undue to match my personal vision of the game. Finally, character creation is much more role constraining (pending the release of supplements) -- that's both a bug and a feature.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Olgar Shiverstone, post: 4444532, member: 5868"] [b]No long-term advance planning for PC character development.[/b] I'm not sure this is true, as stat requirements almost make it more critical that you careful consider future feat and power preferences before you assign stats. Retraining does eliminate a lot of feat planning, admittedly. [b]No class is useless in a specific fight.[/b] Heck, yes. Best feature of 4E IMO -- plus 4E significantly increased the importance of team tactics, which is a good feature IMO. [b]Easier high-level PC creation.[/b] Mostly, yes. I'd argue that it's much easier for high-level spellcasters, and much harder for high-level melee characters. [b]Fighters are now actually interesting.[/b] 3E Fighters were interesting too, if you actually took advantage of the range of feats -- orders of magnitude better than prior edition fighters. I'll grant that 4E fighters are now a step more interesting than even their 3E counterparts, though. [b]Less-complex high-level spellcasters.[/b] Goodness, yes. [b]Rituals.[/b] I like these mechanics, but I'm disappointed with the number, and the fact that rituals have essentially killed the prior "clever use of flexible spells" that you could do. It's fun to play "101 uses for a 1st level spell" -- not quite as fun now. [b]Skill challenges.[/b] Frankly, I see this as a mechanic that isn't unique to 4E -- easy enough to port it back to 3E (and even 2E's NWPs with some further tweaking). The fact that they screwed up the initial SC release in the core rules still irqs me. [b]Minions.[/b] Again, not a unique-to-4E mechanic. Take almost any 3E monster, reduce to 1 hp = minion. [b]Easier high-level NPC creation.[/b] Yes and no. If you weren't anal about having every single spell, feat, and skill point accounted for, high level NPCs in 3E aren't really that hard -- you just put together those items that you need for play and wing the rest. [b]Easier monster creation/modification.[/b] Creation, yes. I'm not convinced that systematic modification is a strength of 4E. Point modification is neither significantly easier or harder than before. [b]In-depth discussion on building encounters and monster roles.[/b] I wouldn't say that the concepts are any better or worse, but certainly including the design discussion in the DMG is one of the smartest decisions made for that book, and results in a significantly more useful DMG than prior editions (where the DMG was just the place to srtore magic items). My criticisms of 4E: Missing classes plus limited rituals/spells and magic items compared to prior editions core rules make the initial release feel incomplete; changes to the base "fluff" of D&D feel like "change for change sake" that I have to undue to match my personal vision of the game. Finally, character creation is much more role constraining (pending the release of supplements) -- that's both a bug and a feature. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
11 Reasons Why I Prefer D&D 4E
Top