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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DM-Rocco" data-source="post: 4445314" data-attributes="member: 14451">Fighters had variety based on feats and style of play.  I played in a game that restricted use to core rules with a fighter and because of the way I played him I had a blast.  Add in things like the duelist and even more so.  Sure, they didn't have hundreds of spells to choose from so yes, they didn't have hundreds of different options, so if you need that many options, I guess a fighter is not for you but they can and are fun to play even with just the basics.  However, compared to magic in 3.5, I guess you could argue that everything else is boring.  You can read threads like, "Does magic marginalize rogues," to get in on that fight.Minions in 3.5 is all in how the DM house rules them.  To me, house rules are as much a part of DMing and D&D as the regular rules.  Even Gary Gygax house ruled the game and encouraged others to as well.  In his most famous quote he says, “The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules. I'm sure you won't agree since you appear to like only the source books.  I don't want to assume that you limit yourself to just the straight rules but if you don't use anything but the core books, one could imply from such a statement that you don't use house rules or vary sparingly if you do.My point is that, yes, if you used a 1 hp standard orc fresh right out of the MM, yes, a hundred of them will not touch a mid to high level PC with even just a little AC.  However, smart DMs who don't let things get out of control like 40-100 ACs and use a few select house rules can have minions that are just as effective as 4e.  The DMGII introduced mob tactics and that even worked better for 3.5 minions.  With a mob, you didn't need to have special house rules for dealing with effective minions, all you needed was a swarm of the same type of creature and they would deal damage to a PC or most likely many PCs regardless of ACs.It is all in how you present and deal with the rules and monsters.As to the trap I was referring to, you come on and say 11 things you like about 4e, someone asks you a few things you don't like and you come on with a cordial reply and then others start to chime in and share their pros and cons, then you slap everyone in the face and say, "hey, this is how I figure people posting on this thread feel about 4e but really, check out this thread which is how people should feel about 4e."  To me that seemed disingenuous.  I would have had more respect for your thread had you not tried to do your poll within your own thread and point out results in yours.  Your thread was things you liked about 4e, not how many people like 4e and why I or others should too.</blockquote>

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