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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4448715" data-attributes="member: 336">It is interesting that Book of Nine Swords keeps coming up as an alternative to make 3e melee fighters more interesting.  Specially because a lot of the innovations of 4e (encounter powers) were put out there in this book as a playtest.  Well now in 4e you don't necessarily have to be a "good player" to benefit from these.  I haven't seen much flavor loss, mostly because there are still many things the wizard can do outside of combat (rituals).  I agree that I wish they had included more of them, but I'm willing to give it time.  Since additional sourcebooks are in the works.Yep, that could be an issue, if the DM wants it to be that way.  You make a good point in that in 4e unless the DM makes a concerted effort to keep particular players uninvolved in combat, all the players can be involved and have something useful to do.  Talking about combat options there are a lot more now than 3e ever had.  Almost every class has powers at varying levels that will knock opponents prone (trip).  So unlike before where you really had to have quite a bit of investment in feats and attributes to perform these combat actions effectively, now your normal class powers allow you to do this as part of your selection.  Attacking unarmed is no longer a penalty.  Using improvised weapons is now an option without becoming a penalty.  In other words you don't have to have all these feats invested in x, y or z maneuver to be able to do it.  In addition the combat stunts section covers those eventualities when a player wants to do something not explicitly covered by the rules.  So I think that 4e does a really good job of opening up options to ALL the classes, which my players and I prefer.Completely illogical is also an exaggerated argument.  If you use the minion for it's intended purpose it makes perfect sense within the context of the rules.If you wish to stat an NPC to the same degree as a PC, the player's handbook is pretty explicit on how to create a PC, what additional level of support is required?   What else do you need?These arguments have been used over and over but the more that people have been playing the game the more we've started to see that they are not based on how the game actually plays.</blockquote>

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