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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 4450006" data-attributes="member: 467">I think that's entirely dependent upon the level range we're talking about. A gang of 8 orcs is EL 5 (if I am remembering my EL math correctly).  At that point, the orcs are swing with a +5, including flanking, against AC's that are not appreciably better than 1st level characters except for the tank fighters that pumped all their treasure into a suit of full plate (maybe everyoen else has a +1 or +2 increase from various gear and such).  Are they are horrifying deadly threat? No.  But they do represent a big enough threat that PCs have to expend some resources to ensure that no one gets seriously injured.  that's okay.  it isn't a boss fight, it is a "standard" fight.  basic stats plus good tactics makes them a noticible threat.  Now, as you start up the level ladder, things get a little wonkier, because PC defenses and capabilities grow exponentially as opposed to linearly.I'll have to look up some specific examples and see if I can parcel out where the break is.</blockquote>