Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6319317" data-attributes="member: 5143">It's because magic items don't GIVE math.  They give a +1 to hit and also the ability to breath underwater.  Or a +1 to hit and the ability to sense oranges in a 30 foot radius.  When all magic weapons are adding +1 and something else, the focus then shifts to the something else.  Thus, being about the story and not the math.This is similar to the 4e philosophy, except the "extra effect" isn't always combat oriented.Wait, why do they have to be accounted for?  If you need a 9 to hit instead of a 10, is that suddenly game breaking and the monsters must be adjusted for?  They've said there will be no magic items that add more than +2.  That means an advantage to anyone who has a magic item.  I say...good for them.  Instead of a magic item being something everyone has, it's now an actual benefit.Does it feel like D&D to you?  It doesn't to me.  They've never been able to heal before.  Most of the D&D worlds that I've designed and the published ones all were built under the assumption that clerics were the ones that healed.  That's part of the reason people even worship the gods.  They protect and heal while the Wizards do other stuff.Plus, it ruins niche protection.  In a class based game, there should ALWAYS be things one class can do that another one can't so as to provide reasons to have both of them in a party.  That's what encourages teamwork.  Cleric's only real schtick is that they heal.Not sure why that's going to get broke.  +2 to a stat is relatively equal to the feats that have been published so far.  With the cap in place, adding +2 to a stat doesn't get broken.Honestly, I couldn't stop laughing at this sentence.  I've never, ever, ever, come across a game that wasn't broken and started to fall apart at the high end of any numbers.  Most of min-maxing involves finding one thing and adding to it repeatedly until you reach a point that the game designers assumed you'd never get.  At which point you dominate the game.It's nearly impossible to give options in a game without accidentally allowing people to do this, either.  Most of the broken characters in 3.5e were the ones that managed to get their stats to 40+ and had modifiers so high they didn't need a dice anymore.  Most of the broken characters in 4e managed to stack static damage modifiers so high that it didn't matter what powers they activated, they won purely due to static modifiers.  When your at-will power does 1d8+59, it doesn't matter that you don't have an encounter power to do 2d8+59.I spent the time I played both editions trying to come up with a house rule to effectively cap the power gamers in my group without hindering the people who didn't do this.  The ONLY real solution I ever came up with was to put hard caps on things like stats and static modifiers to damage.  I never implemented them because my players would have complained and left the game(they feel if they can't power game, then what's the point).The same thing is true of other games.  Try running a Hero System(Champions) game without putting point limits on certain power or maximum damage limitations into effect.  The game spirals out of control really quickly.This is at least one thing I'm worried about.  So far, it appears the math will have very few things to add to it.  They also appear to be making a huge commitment not to release splat books that change this either.  Heck, they won't commit to releasing splat books of any kind.This isn't about a fun rulebook to read.  It's about having more fun when your character does different things than other people.  I'm not one of those people who says "EVERY CLASS IS THE SAME IN 4E!"  I loved 4e and I played it a lot.  Everyone is NOT the same.  However, everyone is MORE the same than when AEDU was not in the game.  You are still making the exact same decisions no matter what class you play.  It's always "Do I use my Encounter power this round?  Or is it time for my Daily?  No?  Alright, then my round has one of two choices: My 2 At-Wills."  The vast majority of the rounds(at low level in particular), you ended up choosing entirely between your at-wills.  And often your at-wills were different enough that only one was a valid choice in the circumstances you were in.  So, turns often played themselves for you.  However, you'd have a 4 page character sheet filled with information you'd need to sort through BEFORE you realized that your only real choice was one of your at-wills.When you remove the AEDU structure, now playing a character "feels" different because you are making different choices.  You are managing different resources which makes them feel different from one another.Level bonus to AC was one of the things I hated most about 4e.  It created was too much difference between low and high level characters.  It created a world where everyone felt like Superman at 30th level instead of just a really good adventurer.Plus, it never made that much sense to me.  I mean, let's say Plate Mail adds 8 to your AC.  Being level 30 added 15 to your AC.  Being good at dodging is all fine and dandy, but I don't think it should ever be twice as valuable as a suit of Plate Mail.Plus, it created this weird situation where a 30th level Wizard who still doesn't know how to use a sword and has used no magic at all and is wearing 0 armor can sit there while a 1st level Fighter, trained in the use of their weapon and pretty good with it, wails away at him for minutes at a time without the Wizard getting touched by the sword once.  I just can't imagine a Wizard suddenly becoming Neo from the Matrix simply because he went up some levels.Hitpoints are already high level characters' ability to get out of the way of attacks.</blockquote>

Verification