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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 4527082" data-attributes="member: 29398">Good observations, Henry, and to a fair extent I agree with you; but there's enough differences that - despite a valiant attempt - it's not quite the same game.&nbsp; Some glaring differences:- In 4e, a 1 h.p. commoner picks up a weapon, joins the party and gains 25 h.p. on the spot.&nbsp; (or do the rules support minion-level PCs?&nbsp; Either way, the commoner-to-hero story trope is gone; in 4e you're either a commoner *or* a hero, there's no middle ground)- Skill challenges are in, replacing to a large extent in-character dialogue between DM and players (or just between players, depending on the situation).- I can't turn myself into a bird, or my opponent into a frog.- Base stats now go up by themselves.&nbsp; In 1e, something that permanently boosted a base stat was very rare and very expensive.- I can't find a familiar, or summon monsters.&nbsp; I can still hire henchmen, I suppose (I mean, in character, what's gonna stop me trying?), but the rules kinda choke on it.- There's no penalty for dying - no Con loss, no resurrection survival roll to see if it's permanent - other than some downtime.- Tables and charts have morphed into straight roll-againsts.- Math doesn't matter any more.&nbsp; No geometry of lightning.&nbsp; No volume of fireball.&nbsp; No % rolls.And some things that are similar that I didn't see in your list:- the 3-18 bell curve for stats means something again, at least for the first few levels. (in other words, you're not running around with 3 base stats in the 20's at 5th level thanks to all the boost items you own)- the DMG bothers to tell new DMs how to run a game.Lanefan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 4527082, member: 29398"] Good observations, Henry, and to a fair extent I agree with you; but there's enough differences that - despite a valiant attempt - it's not quite the same game. Some glaring differences: - In 4e, a 1 h.p. commoner picks up a weapon, joins the party and gains 25 h.p. on the spot. (or do the rules support minion-level PCs? Either way, the commoner-to-hero story trope is gone; in 4e you're either a commoner *or* a hero, there's no middle ground) - Skill challenges are in, replacing to a large extent in-character dialogue between DM and players (or just between players, depending on the situation). - I can't turn myself into a bird, or my opponent into a frog. - Base stats now go up by themselves. In 1e, something that permanently boosted a base stat was very rare and very expensive. - I can't find a familiar, or summon monsters. I can still hire henchmen, I suppose (I mean, in character, what's gonna stop me trying?), but the rules kinda choke on it. - There's no penalty for dying - no Con loss, no resurrection survival roll to see if it's permanent - other than some downtime. - Tables and charts have morphed into straight roll-againsts. - Math doesn't matter any more. No geometry of lightning. No volume of fireball. No % rolls. And some things that are similar that I didn't see in your list: - the 3-18 bell curve for stats means something again, at least for the first few levels. (in other words, you're not running around with 3 base stats in the 20's at 5th level thanks to all the boost items you own) - the DMG bothers to tell new DMs how to run a game. Lanefan [/QUOTE]

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