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<blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 4528693" data-attributes="member: 518">Agreed.err...I mean....[ame=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM&quot;]THIS[/ame]Yeah this the same for me as well. I don't see the similarities with 1E so much as a seeing 4E as O/B/X on steroids, so to speak.&nbsp; This is hard for me to put into words ( so please bear with my rambling mess that follows) but there was a far looser feel to the fantasy of&nbsp; OD&amp;D and later B/X- not just rules, but themes of the game- the structure of the &quot;fantasy world&quot; was different- as AD&amp;D came about and the game &quot;matured&quot; much of the fluff and flavor of the game became as tied into to the AD&amp;D experience as the rules themselves- all the naming conventions, the alignment system and the way the planes worked for example- all that fluff became narrowly focused and as much &quot;D&amp;D&quot; as Armor Class or Hit dice. AD&amp;D became it's own brand or type of Fantasy. O/B/X didn't have those underlying strong &quot;brand themes&quot; (though later BECMI would). It was a mix of all kinds of fantasy influences. 4E has gone back to more of that OBX style classic hodgepodge of fantasy themes/influences vs the classic AD&amp;D defintions we have known the past 30 years or so, and I suspect this is an issue many have with 4E (and may or may not realize it), though I'm sure it's not the only reason for many. Now some of those influences in 4E are def in the camp of more modern fantasy, as well as modern cinema and not the SAME influences of OBX obviously, but it's a similar end result. I for one (as much as I am a&nbsp; die-hard GH fan,) really enjoying this &quot;re-imagining&quot; because it reminds me of when I was a kid and what our OD&amp;D and later B/X games were like. It was a hodgepodge of influences from D&amp;D abut there was alot of&nbsp; earth mythology, whatever fantasy fiction we managed to get ahold of to read, other game material like Arduin, etc mixed in too (I remember being extremely influenced by watching the old Charleton Heston movie El-Cid, and added a medieval spain like culture into our games).&nbsp; This hodgepodge is the kind of thing that 1E tried hard to reign in- Gary (and others)&nbsp; made it quite clear the AD&amp;D game needed more structure in rules and the types of worlds created for AD&amp;D, and this narrower focus/structure in AD&amp;D (and 2E, and 3E) lasted a very long time. Like many of the original D&amp;D players who B&amp;M'ed day in and day out that D&amp;D was not modelling the way (for example) elves, halflings and magic worked in the LOTR trilogy, nowadays many D&amp;D fans are not liking this new &quot;mix&quot; that goes against what has come before.&nbsp; Personally, I'm loving it (and I thought I wouldn't)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JeffB, post: 4528693, member: 518"] Agreed. err...I mean....[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM"]THIS[/ame] Yeah this the same for me as well. I don't see the similarities with 1E so much as a seeing 4E as O/B/X on steroids, so to speak. This is hard for me to put into words ( so please bear with my rambling mess that follows) but there was a far looser feel to the fantasy of OD&D and later B/X- not just rules, but themes of the game- the structure of the "fantasy world" was different- as AD&D came about and the game "matured" much of the fluff and flavor of the game became as tied into to the AD&D experience as the rules themselves- all the naming conventions, the alignment system and the way the planes worked for example- all that fluff became narrowly focused and as much "D&D" as Armor Class or Hit dice. AD&D became it's own brand or type of Fantasy. O/B/X didn't have those underlying strong "brand themes" (though later BECMI would). It was a mix of all kinds of fantasy influences. 4E has gone back to more of that OBX style classic hodgepodge of fantasy themes/influences vs the classic AD&D defintions we have known the past 30 years or so, and I suspect this is an issue many have with 4E (and may or may not realize it), though I'm sure it's not the only reason for many. Now some of those influences in 4E are def in the camp of more modern fantasy, as well as modern cinema and not the SAME influences of OBX obviously, but it's a similar end result. I for one (as much as I am a die-hard GH fan,) really enjoying this "re-imagining" because it reminds me of when I was a kid and what our OD&D and later B/X games were like. It was a hodgepodge of influences from D&D abut there was alot of earth mythology, whatever fantasy fiction we managed to get ahold of to read, other game material like Arduin, etc mixed in too (I remember being extremely influenced by watching the old Charleton Heston movie El-Cid, and added a medieval spain like culture into our games). This hodgepodge is the kind of thing that 1E tried hard to reign in- Gary (and others) made it quite clear the AD&D game needed more structure in rules and the types of worlds created for AD&D, and this narrower focus/structure in AD&D (and 2E, and 3E) lasted a very long time. Like many of the original D&D players who B&M'ed day in and day out that D&D was not modelling the way (for example) elves, halflings and magic worked in the LOTR trilogy, nowadays many D&D fans are not liking this new "mix" that goes against what has come before. Personally, I'm loving it (and I thought I wouldn't) [/QUOTE]

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