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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3458852" data-attributes="member: 4937">Did you ever use the grappling rules from the 1st edition DMG?  I would say that 3e's better than most.Yeah, silly error on my part.  Maybe.  First edition theives only fight as well as 3rd edition Wizards, so we are talking about being 12th level before going up to 3/2.   That might be ok if we also adopted 3rd edition style 'sneak attacks' rather than the more restrictive 'back stab'.  As a long time player of thieves in 1st edition, I eventually discovered and became rather peeved at the fact that the class offers basically nothing at higher levels except the pleasure of surviving by your wits alone.  I can remember many cases where I could barely hit the monster and the fighter could barely miss, and where my 'skills' were basically obseleted by access to magic essentially superior to anything I could do - invisibility, divinations, flight, etc.  As is, the only way to keep the class on par with other classes in power level is to dual/multi-class if you plan on playing one at higher levels.  Not to me.  I wouldn't mind a darkvision with the restriction 'outside only' or whatever.  What I don't like and still remember with loathing is how the psuedo-scientific explanation lead to debate, rules lawyering, difficult to adjudicate situations, and so forth.  Better to keep the functionality and strip off the confusing techno-babble.There are what, 30 odd 1st level spells between the PH and UA alone to say nothing of the 100 or so in other supplements?  Of those, only a handful (read and detect magic) were moved down to 0th level in 3rd edition.  I think we'll manage.I believe that that is the point.  The power level of the 3rd edition ones is much more appropriate.  The 1st edition ones were fun, but they were mostly color.  One of the many great things 3rd edition did for the game was give wizards something to do during the first 4-6 levels of the game, other than hide back and watch others do thier thing.  Playing a low level wizard was boring in 1st edition, and even when you finally made it to 5th level and got the almighty fireball/lightning bolt, it still meant basically that you were a one shot wonder for several levels.  It's good for the game.  First edition has very little mechanical flavor and interest in its combats.  That level of detail and complexity creates some really interesting choices, deals with some otherwise versimilitude breaking outcomes, tends to balance longswords with other weapon choices (so that longsword and board isn't just about the only way to go), tends to balance monsters with PC's a little better so that you can stay in 1st editions 'sweet spot' longer, and so forth.Now, other things I would advise to someone going back to 1st edition.Don't use 1st editions overly complex initiative system.  I'm not even sure that Gygax used it.  The third edition system works just fine.Do use the rule that iterative attacks alternate, rather than coming all at once.  This keeps high level fighters from taking down most monsters without facing a threat.Do not use critical hit charts.  They can be sorta fun, but they shorten combats game duration, increase combats play duration, and in the long run benefit the monsters more than the PC's and will lead to unnecessary player death/mutilation.  Do allow the alternate rule that no one dies until -10 hit points. Do not give into the temptation to allow weapon specialization.  Not only does it make the fighter over powering and over dominating of play at low levels, but it leads to uninteresting play.  No one is not going to take WS, the benefits are just too clear.  Do not assume that a Paladin is a UA Cavelier.  The Paladin class is a bit powerful as it is without bundling in all sorts of new special abilities.Do not allow the UA alternate races.  The 1st edition races aren't really that balanced to begin with, and making NPC races playable just leads to cheese, especially at low levels where PC level restrictions aren't even going to be coming into play.  As an alternate rule, if you do allow them I suggest XP penalties (-10%, -20% wild elves, grey elves, -30% underdark races) for those races which are clearly stronger than the PH races.Do pay attention to the item saving throw rules.  If you are going back to 1st edition, one of the joys amongst the frustration will be the character as hero rather than the character's equipment.  Item saving throws help reinforce that its about the guy that wields the sword, not the sword.</blockquote>

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