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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catsclaw227" data-source="post: 4480233" data-attributes="member: 14197">Yea, I had a real problem with this too.  And the slippery slope that the bad 3rd party 3.x splat books went down bugged me as well.There is some truth to this, I will agree.  Though I am not sure if 1e (and 2e) or 4e (and 4e) were "better" than one way or the other.  In 1e thieves still had a Find/Remove traps percentage.  Now it's a search roll.  And even in 1e there were times when my players would gloss over all the poking around a room and just say "I search the whole room" so that they didn't need to go: I search the altar. (roll percentage) Nope, nothing there.  I search behind the tapestry. (roll percentage) Nope, nothing there.  I search the front pew. (roll percentage) Nope, nothing there.  I search the second pew. (roll percentage) Nope, nothing there.  [players looking at each other, in frustration, big sighs all around].  OK, well then I search the unholy water dish. (roll percentage) Nope, nothing there.  How about I search that rug on the floor (roll percentage, a bad roll) Nope, nothing there [even though that's where the secret door was].And before anyone says that this didn't happen in their games, then remember that this was the way it was supposed to work in 1e, so you were house ruling this.</blockquote>