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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 4480351" data-attributes="member: 58197">Having started the post ranting about cliches, you then proceed to put forth another one.My experience has been that in both schools of play, challenges are aimed neither strictly at the player nor strictly at the character-as-mechanical-construct, but somewhere in between.In old-school D&D, players came up with clever solutions, but most DMs I played with would have a look at your stats and/or make you roll some dice in order to determine whether your clever solution worked.  If you were a half-orc with a Charisma of 3, and your solution involved being all smooth-talking and diplomatic-like, it probably wasn't going to fly, even if you the player could talk the birds down from the trees.In new-school D&D, skill checks and the like augment but seldom replace clever problem-solving by the players.  If you have a dodgy NPC, you can make a Sense Motive check to try to pin down when he's lying, but that isn't going to make him tell you what the truth is, and you don't automatically have to trust every word out of his mouth if you fail Sense Motive - you just lack the ability to say for certain when he is or isn't lying.  A Knowledge check might give you some background info and a useful hint or two on that cryptic inscription, but it isn't going to tell you what the inscription means in its current context.As for Search, Catsclaw227 summed this up pretty well - if you have to declare your intent to search every little thing, then players are apt to make an inventory of the room and declare "I'm searching X" for each item.  Rolling all that into a single Search check strikes me as a major improvement.</blockquote>

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