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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 2124565" data-attributes="member: 29252">No... but a level-1 cleric with a cha score of 12 has a 60% chance (roll of 1-8 fails, 9-20 succeeds) per turning attempt of turning 2d6 + 2 such 1 HD skeletons.  Two turning attempts (of four per day for such a cleric) has a pretty good (84%; 3 93.6%, all four 97.44%) chance of having at least one success, at an average of 9 undead of 1 HD each.Even if you don't have turning capability, two hits from a level-0 Disrupt Undead has a fair chance of killing a 1 HD undead (unless they have spell resistance.....), a few castings of Burning Hands (an average of 3 at caster level 1, if none succeed their reflex saves) will knock down any 1 HD skeletons caught in it's path; two successful castings of Shocking Grasp will likewise kill a 1 HD skeleton; cure Light Wounds (a level 1 spell, usually) deals 1d8+1 to an undead (assuming a level-1 caster and a successful touch attack), which has a 6 in 8 chance (75%) chance of killing a standard 1 HD, 7 HP skeleton (if the skeleton doesn't save, and skeleton's don't usually have good will saves).  A swing from a bludgeoning weapon - for example, the one-handed Heavy Mace (1d8) in the hands of a Str-16 fighter, will do what, an average of 7.5 damage on a successful hit?  The average roll (the one most commonly used when seeing how many HP a simple enemy has) is going to run at 6.5 on a d12 (round to 7).  A casting of Enlarge Person (level-1 spell) on that same fighter produces a switch to 2d6+4 damage per hit - an average of 11 damage (but no change on the attack rolls - Str increase's bonus is balanced out by the size increase's penalty).  As skeletons don't have a con score or feats that increase their HP, the same blows will knock them down, provided they are landed. (well, there are a few ways to increase an undeads HP, such as Desecrate... but those really do require higher level setups)Sure, changing the skeletons' base without changing the skeleton's HD makes a difference - but it won't usually make an overwhelming one, unless the DM is just being cruel with what he can technically do inside the prescribed CR - such as the case of the Half-Dragon Orc Skeleton - but it might be pointed out that such templates as Half-Dragon have a CR adjustment put in (and counter-argued that by the definitions of how the two templates are applied, the Half-Dragon has to go first, and so the skeleton's listing technically takes precedence).</blockquote>

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