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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 3743638" data-attributes="member: 42582">Agreed. D&D is about the only RPG I know of which is built on this perverse model, of not delivering the intended play experience (namely, overcoming challenges in a world of fantasy adventures) if played in accordance with the rules, until several sessions of play have concluded.I don't think that 4e is being written to cater to this play style - either "character immersion" roleplaying or exploration and survival as the main goal of play. The designers' comments seem to make it pretty clear that the game is being written to support a game of "overcoming challenges". Essential to realising this as a goal of play is that the outcome of such challenges not depend primarily on luck. A concomitant of this as a goal of play is that character-build rules are designed to facilitate not only trying, but succeeding.In 4e I think the fun will be in overcoming challenges by cleverly deploying one's character abilities. This means that the effect of luck has to be subordinated somewhat (although not so much that a "lucky 20" isn't still exciting and even memorable at the table). The notion of adventuring as a dangerous occupation will not be gone. But PCs will be able to successfully confront those dangers and overcome them.There are two issues here. One is whether a D&D to-hit roll models a single swing, or a flurry of activity. Given the ratio of hit rolls to game time elapsed, the latter must often be the case.But the more important issue is one of game design: is it fun for a player in the game to be having no effect on the action (because of an incompetent or out-of-action PC) for extended periods of time? The designers (not unreasonably) answer "No" and therefore are looking at approaches to character building and action resolution which will avoid this situation.I think the point is that a living but unconscious character is still not fun, in the (not unreasonable) view of the designers. And also that the aim of the 4e game is not "staying alive" but "overcoming challenges".Like someone else said, roll fewer hit dice. Or step down hit-dice size. Or double weapon damage.But the notion that a level-based game should be designed with the expection that most PCs will start at a level above first is absurd.</blockquote>

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