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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9057734" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Also, since we are discussing Sap and 5th level fighters, I figured I'd do some quick math here. 5th level fighter, no subclass, +4 mod, dueling style and shield gives us an AC of 18 at least, maybe as high as 20They have access to better weapons, so let's go flail and longsword. 1d8+6 (sap) followed by 1d10+6 (flex) is going to be 22 damage Monk at this level has 17 AC, and fewer hp. Uses a mace for first attack. 1d6+4 (sap) followed by 1d8+4 and 1d8+4. That is 24.5. It is 2.5 points higher, on three attacks, which the monk can only do better by spending their resources. They still have lower AC (could be as much as 3 pts lower) and few hp. What if I went dual-wielder? Well, I think this works, since the feat allows you to treat a one-handed non-light weapon as light as long as you have a light weapon in the other handFlail: 1d8+4 then longsword 1d10+4 then Shortsword for 1d6+4 ends up with a total of 25.5 and deals sap and vex for advantage at some point. And the fighter will likely STILL have better AC than the monk.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9057734, member: 6801228"] Also, since we are discussing Sap and 5th level fighters, I figured I'd do some quick math here. 5th level fighter, no subclass, +4 mod, dueling style and shield gives us an AC of 18 at least, maybe as high as 20 They have access to better weapons, so let's go flail and longsword. 1d8+6 (sap) followed by 1d10+6 (flex) is going to be 22 damage Monk at this level has 17 AC, and fewer hp. Uses a mace for first attack. 1d6+4 (sap) followed by 1d8+4 and 1d8+4. That is 24.5. It is 2.5 points higher, on three attacks, which the monk can only do better by spending their resources. They still have lower AC (could be as much as 3 pts lower) and few hp. What if I went dual-wielder? Well, I think this works, since the feat allows you to treat a one-handed non-light weapon as light as long as you have a light weapon in the other hand Flail: 1d8+4 then longsword 1d10+4 then Shortsword for 1d6+4 ends up with a total of 25.5 and deals sap and vex for advantage at some point. And the fighter will likely STILL have better AC than the monk. [/QUOTE]

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