1st lvl party vs. 3rd lvl black dragon. TPK?

[Matrix Sorcica]

We finally ended Red Hand of Doom (what a blast!) and is preparing for 4E.

I want them to face a black dragon in their first adventure (it's Regiarix from RHoD, he got blasted but fell from outside the Fane.... he somehow made it and is back years later with a vengeance).

Question is, will this TPK them? I read the thread about fighting a black dragon and it seemed to indicate that a 4th lvl dragon vs. a 2nd lvl party = TPK.

Is the same true for 1st vs. 3rd? Thanks.


The PCs will have slightly better stats than point buy (4d6, drop lowest, roll three sets, pick one set, arrange as desired).

 

[Jack99]

The black dragon vs- players often mentioned online was a 4th level dragon with inflated stats against a 1st level party.

If you take the 4th level black dragon from the MM and scales it down to 3rd, it is quite possible for the players to beat. It might get a rough fight, but depending on class composition etc, quite doable.

 

[Rel]

I'm interested in any opinions about this myself. I'm considering reskinning a Young Black Dragon for the PC's to fight, probably right after they hit 2nd level.

 

[hexgrid]

I don't have the book with me, but isn't this the final encounter of Kobold Hall, in the DMG?

It wasn't a TPK when I ran it, but the the battle took forever.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I don't have the book with me, but isn't this the final encounter of Kobold Hall, in the DMG?

It wasn't a TPK when I ran it, but the the battle took forever.

Yup - I think it might even be 4th level, iirc.

I reskinned it as a Green 3rd level Dragon and it was an epic fight (the green's ability to slide targets worked well with its new lair I gave it with pits )

 

[the Jester]

I ran a dragon encounter with a young black against, oh, 2nd-3rd level pcs a while back. IIRC there were only four pcs present. It was a great fight, with the pcs coming out on top by a hair. No grindspace- it went very well.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I ran some 1st level PCs against the young black dragon.

It was grindspace for us, since everyone had (at best) 1 encounter and 1 daily to use apart from their at-wills, and the thing had got SO many hit points it took ages to wear it down with their at-will powers.

Additionally I had to play the dragon somewhat stupidly in order to avoid thrashing them (I made it overconfident-stupid). In the end the dragon 'escaped' when it was down to 25% of its hp total and feeling threatened rather than stay and wipe out the PCs.

Cheers

 

[Runestar]

I think the only way the PCs stand a chance is if you deliberately do not play the black dragon to its full strengths (eg: have them fight it in a small cave, where it cannot take advantage of its innate flight/hover capabilities, spreading out its attacks instead of concentrating them all on one PC).

 

[Kinneus]

In the first game I ever DMed, I had my friends fight a black dragon with their 1st-level PCs. It was the only sort of dragon that fit the flavor of the dungeon. I basically used the level 3 white dragon's HP, AC, Fort, Reflex and Will, but kept everything else the same. It was far from a TPK. The only person to drop was the Paladin and he only did it once, and everybody but the Ranger missed with their Dailies, and all healing was used. It was a little bit grindy toward the end, so you might want to drop the HP by an additonal 20-50. But overall, it worked really well, and was quite the challenge for a 1st level party.

 

[Kinneus]

I don't have the book with me, but isn't this the final encounter of Kobold Hall, in the DMG?

It wasn't a TPK when I ran it, but the the battle took forever.

The final battle in Kobold Hall is a young white dragon, level 3.