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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6089927" data-attributes="member: 2067">It was actually kind of an attempt to sort out the real point of contention, here. You don't seem to want a game that you could play without a cleric to be basic, but you also don't seem to have a problem with any of the proposals I've actually entertained for a way to do that. You've protested healing surges and warlords as stuff you don't want (and, FWIW, the basic game probably should be free of those, IMO), but you haven't protested any of my actual points as things you don't want. So I'm left a little befuddled about what those proposed ideas would take away from you that you value so much. I think I've been pretty clear about my reasons for thinking that mandating a cleric in the party at newbie-facing level of Basic doesn't sound like a great idea, but I don't yet entirely understand why it is necessary for others that required cleric healing be the default rule. Most of the response I've heard is "We don't want healing surges or warlords in the basic game!" (Sure, but that's not what I was proposing), and "Grognards will hate it!" (Okay, but lets get specific on what they'd hate about it, and why it is mandated at the level of basic, then), with a background chorus of "WotC says it's not a problem!" (Fair enough, but that still sucks for the people that this is going to exclude). And while I do get in general why someone would want that rule (it's a specific kind of feel they're shooting for, and it should totally get support), I don't know what specific elements of in-play activity are going to contribute to that. And I'm even less clear on why it MUST be a basic-level rule. I think I've been pretty clear on why I think a game that requires that at a basic level is going to be problematic for at least some players, due to the nature of what the basic game is: newbies will necessarily not want to change the game to suit their playstyle, but guys who've been playing for 35 years? I think I've also been pretty clear on what specific game elements might achieve that, while keeping cleric healing as something unique (ie: it is reactive rather than proactive, it is able to be used on allies instead of just on yourself, it is likely more potent in terms of raw points, etc.). Trying to get at the core of the disagreement isn't a game I'm playing, it's an attempt to engage the conversation and understand the disagreement better. I certainly mean no offense by it.</blockquote>

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