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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6090937" data-attributes="member: 7006">Really?  Well then, tell me how YOU'D figure out how proportionally less-powerful you would make the cleric compared to the other classes, based on the assumption that they will possibly keep another player of X class in the fight for Y number of rounds compared to a party without one... when the party is 3 fighters / 1 cleric, 2 fighters / 1 cleric / 1 rogue, 2 clerics / 2 rogues / 1 wizard, 3 wizards / 1 cleric, 6 clerics, etc. etc. etc.?Oh!  And don't forget to add in the fact that some of those parties will also change how many of those PCs will be in melee (and thus soaking damage) and others will be at range (and thus not).  So it's not just 3 fighters 1 cleric you need to account for... it's 3 fighters melee / 1 cleric ranged, or 2 fighters melee / 1 cleric melee / 1 fighter ranged, or 1 cleric melee / 3 fighters ranged, etc. etc. etc.  Because those variables dictate how many rounds of combat there will be before someone falls unconscious too.And of course... let's not forget that there might be more than one monster.  And those monsters might gang up on one PC, or might split up onto two.  Or split up so that every member of the party is attacked by a single monster all at the same time.  Cause that'll change if/when/how long before someone falls unconscious and thus lose the party man-rounds of doing/soaking damage.And what about how far apart these PCs are when they get attacked?  How many man-rounds might you lose because the cleric is A numbers of spaces away from one PC who drops to 0, but B number of spaces from another PC that drops to 0?  And we all know exactly how every player of every cleric is going to decide who to help first if two PCs drop unconscious at the same time, right?  No variables there, I'm sure.So go ahead.  let's do all that and come up with a concrete number that says a cleric needs to be 83% as powerful as a fighter (in both damage done, and damage soaked) to account for all the damage they will prevent and/or add by not letting his fellow PCs fall unconscious.  That way we know that the cleric is ENTIRELY BALANCED regardless of their number in the party (from a party of all clerics down to zero clerics) so that the amount of combat encounters a table can go through before resting is EXACTLY THE SAME.That way there is zero difference between having a cleric and not having a cleric and they can all do 5 encounters before resting (or whatever number WotC wants to use).Should be easy.</blockquote>

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