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<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6083448" data-attributes="member: 6688858">I think it should be compulsory in the sense of &quot;hey try this out and see if it grows on you&quot;, because sometimes it does and people enjoy it, and if the dungeon design is pretty predictable and boxed-in close together, supposedly you can deduce the location of secret doors with an an accurate grid map (I've never actually seen this happen, but it would be cool). I do kind of like just saying &quot;hey, you guys have to find your way around this mazy labyrinth, so do whatever you think is necessary to do that&quot; and seeing what mapping behaviors that leads to, but that's unlikely to ever lead to grid-mapping. On balance I think players should be instructed to try it out.I'm the same way, I think of it as a meta thing. I would be down to try diegetic mapping out, though. If I were going to roll item saving throws for the map and what-not, I would have NPCs willing to buy it from the players as well. I haven't run into any problems thinking of the map as meta, so I think it's a pretty modular complication.When I&nbsp; ran Isle of Dread last year we also found the hexcrawl portion pretty&nbsp; boring, but my conclusion was that the material is boring. The player&nbsp; who was mapping said that they found filling in the blank map kind of&nbsp; satisfying in itself, but there needs to be more of a payoff to it than&nbsp; encounters that are like some monkey men in a tree, some cavemen in a&nbsp; cave, etc. I'd like to try hexcrawling in one of John Stater's <a href="http://matt-landofnod.blogspot.ca/" target="_blank">Land of Nod</a> regions, where the encounters are more like:2436&nbsp; Yoghaudha:&nbsp; Nestled&nbsp; in&nbsp; the&nbsp; hills&nbsp; there&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; circular 
keep&nbsp; standing&nbsp; 30&nbsp; feet&nbsp; tall&nbsp; and&nbsp; built&nbsp; of&nbsp; large&nbsp; limestone 
blocks.&nbsp; The&nbsp; keep&nbsp; is&nbsp; surrounded&nbsp; by&nbsp; a&nbsp; moat&nbsp; of&nbsp; sorts,&nbsp; that 
draws in a rushing stream that flows from the surrounding 
hills.&nbsp; This&nbsp; water&nbsp; flows&nbsp; around&nbsp; the&nbsp; keep&nbsp; and&nbsp; finally&nbsp; enters 
through&nbsp; a&nbsp; large&nbsp; grate&nbsp; carved&nbsp; from&nbsp; granite.&nbsp; This&nbsp; is&nbsp; the 
entrance to an odd construction of the ancient ophidians. 
For the visible keep is merely the outer ring in a series of 
six rings, each 30‐ft tall and 30‐ft wide and sunk 10‐ft lower 
than&nbsp; the&nbsp; ring&nbsp; that&nbsp; surrounds&nbsp; it.&nbsp; Thus,&nbsp; the&nbsp; keep,&nbsp; which&nbsp; is 
360‐ft in diameter, resembles something of a pit, with the 
center&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; keep&nbsp; set&nbsp; 20&nbsp; feet&nbsp; below&nbsp; the&nbsp; surface&nbsp; of&nbsp; the 
earth. The stream flows through the different rings of the 
construction,&nbsp; sometimes&nbsp; openly,&nbsp; sometimes&nbsp; hidden&nbsp; in 
pipes. It ultimately flows into the central chamber, cooling 
an atomic pile that powers a temporal stasis machine. An 
invisible&nbsp; entity&nbsp; of&nbsp; chaos&nbsp; was&nbsp; imprisoned&nbsp; in&nbsp; this&nbsp; machine, 
which&nbsp; can&nbsp; be&nbsp; ruined&nbsp; in&nbsp; a&nbsp; variety&nbsp; of&nbsp; ways&nbsp; by&nbsp; curious 
adventurers, not the least of which is the removal of one of 
seven golden rods surrounding the frozen chaos entity. 
 
Each&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; rings&nbsp; is&nbsp; protected&nbsp; by&nbsp; different&nbsp; creatures,&nbsp; with 
the power of the defenders increasing as one gets closer to 
the center. The innermost ring (the one that surrounds the 
central&nbsp; chamber)&nbsp; is&nbsp; defended&nbsp; by&nbsp; a&nbsp; dozen&nbsp; beetlors.&nbsp; The 
outermost&nbsp; ring&nbsp; is&nbsp; defended&nbsp; by&nbsp; a&nbsp; legion&nbsp; of&nbsp; zombies 
animated through science, and thus not truly undead. The 
second&nbsp; ring&nbsp; is&nbsp; defended&nbsp; by&nbsp; bronze&nbsp; cobras&nbsp; and&nbsp; pyre 
zombies (also not undead). The third ring by brown molds, 
giant&nbsp; centipedes&nbsp; and&nbsp; vierds.&nbsp; The&nbsp; fourth&nbsp; ring&nbsp; by&nbsp; crystaline 
assassins&nbsp; and&nbsp; Marrosian&nbsp; statues,&nbsp; and&nbsp; the&nbsp; fifth&nbsp; by&nbsp; wax 
golems, giant serpents and wandering holes.
(from NOD no.1)
</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 6083448, member: 6688858"] I think it should be compulsory in the sense of "hey try this out and see if it grows on you", because sometimes it does and people enjoy it, and if the dungeon design is pretty predictable and boxed-in close together, supposedly you can deduce the location of secret doors with an an accurate grid map (I've never actually seen this happen, but it would be cool). I do kind of like just saying "hey, you guys have to find your way around this mazy labyrinth, so do whatever you think is necessary to do that" and seeing what mapping behaviors that leads to, but that's unlikely to ever lead to grid-mapping. On balance I think players should be instructed to try it out. I'm the same way, I think of it as a meta thing. I would be down to try diegetic mapping out, though. If I were going to roll item saving throws for the map and what-not, I would have NPCs willing to buy it from the players as well. I haven't run into any problems thinking of the map as meta, so I think it's a pretty modular complication. When I ran Isle of Dread last year we also found the hexcrawl portion pretty boring, but my conclusion was that the material is boring. The player who was mapping said that they found filling in the blank map kind of satisfying in itself, but there needs to be more of a payoff to it than encounters that are like some monkey men in a tree, some cavemen in a cave, etc. I'd like to try hexcrawling in one of John Stater's [URL="http://matt-landofnod.blogspot.ca/"]Land of Nod[/URL] regions, where the encounters are more like: [INDENT]2436 Yoghaudha: Nestled in the hills there is a circular keep standing 30 feet tall and built of large limestone blocks. The keep is surrounded by a moat of sorts, that draws in a rushing stream that flows from the surrounding hills. This water flows around the keep and finally enters through a large grate carved from granite. This is the entrance to an odd construction of the ancient ophidians. For the visible keep is merely the outer ring in a series of six rings, each 30‐ft tall and 30‐ft wide and sunk 10‐ft lower than the ring that surrounds it. Thus, the keep, which is 360‐ft in diameter, resembles something of a pit, with the center of the keep set 20 feet below the surface of the earth. The stream flows through the different rings of the construction, sometimes openly, sometimes hidden in pipes. It ultimately flows into the central chamber, cooling an atomic pile that powers a temporal stasis machine. An invisible entity of chaos was imprisoned in this machine, which can be ruined in a variety of ways by curious adventurers, not the least of which is the removal of one of seven golden rods surrounding the frozen chaos entity. Each of the rings is protected by different creatures, with the power of the defenders increasing as one gets closer to the center. The innermost ring (the one that surrounds the central chamber) is defended by a dozen beetlors. The outermost ring is defended by a legion of zombies animated through science, and thus not truly undead. The second ring is defended by bronze cobras and pyre zombies (also not undead). The third ring by brown molds, giant centipedes and vierds. The fourth ring by crystaline assassins and Marrosian statues, and the fifth by wax golems, giant serpents and wandering holes. (from NOD no.1) [/INDENT] [/QUOTE]

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