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<blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 3559965" data-attributes="member: 12872">Yeah, but those stats would hurt badly to EVERYONE. That race would be abysmal unless it had some pretty radical specials. They'd make decent sorcerers or bards, ok paladins, and total crap everything else. OTOH, the core races (aside from the half-breeds) make a few really great choices, and decent or ok on everything else. Core elves are fine because very few classes can get away with having +2 dex not help them out; +2 cha however only helps cha casters and paladins.Am I the only person that doesn't think just because a race has a +casting stat or +casting advantage doesn't mean it's a no-brainer? I've seen people make human illusionists just because they hate gnomes, and I've seen people choose gnome because they are clearly the best race for the class, from both an RP and Min/Max perspective.I would never choose a star elf (again, unless the specials rock), but if it didn't have -2 con and had, say, -2 str, I would choose it sometimes (but not every time). Reason being people don't always choose the thing with the bonus to their main stat, and because I still have other powerful options like a gnome sorcerer who slings illusions, or a human sorcerer who gets an extra feat and skill, allowing me to further dump my Int and jack up my Dex, Con, and Cha.I say roll out the +2 cha race, give it one or two mechanical things that set it apart from &quot;human with +2 cha&quot;, and call it a day.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Old Gumphrey, post: 3559965, member: 12872"] Yeah, but those stats would hurt badly to EVERYONE. That race would be abysmal unless it had some pretty radical specials. They'd make decent sorcerers or bards, ok paladins, and total crap everything else. OTOH, the core races (aside from the half-breeds) make a few really great choices, and decent or ok on everything else. Core elves are fine because very few classes can get away with having +2 dex not help them out; +2 cha however only helps cha casters and paladins. Am I the only person that doesn't think just because a race has a +casting stat or +casting advantage doesn't mean it's a no-brainer? I've seen people make human illusionists just because they hate gnomes, and I've seen people choose gnome because they are clearly the best race for the class, from both an RP and Min/Max perspective. I would never choose a star elf (again, unless the specials rock), but if it didn't have -2 con and had, say, -2 str, I would choose it sometimes (but not every time). Reason being people don't always choose the thing with the bonus to their main stat, and because I still have other powerful options like a gnome sorcerer who slings illusions, or a human sorcerer who gets an extra feat and skill, allowing me to further dump my Int and jack up my Dex, Con, and Cha. I say roll out the +2 cha race, give it one or two mechanical things that set it apart from "human with +2 cha", and call it a day. [/QUOTE]

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