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<blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 3564999" data-attributes="member: 12872">Or perhaps the problem is that your group doesn't fully understand the grapple rules?See most of your arguments hinge on things like flying grapplers being common. Overland Flight could be renamed &quot;melee immunity&quot;. I have never once been involved in a game where flying grapplers were used, in 15 years of gaming (although technically only the last 7 count for flying grapplers). That's not to say it's irrelevant, but I'm sure as heck not going to design a character based around the threat of one.Grell...Giant Toad...so what? You sound like you've been run through RttToEE one too many times with a small character and the DM felt like picking on you.The most important thing is this:I never said grappling isn't dangerous to a caster. I said -4 more isn't a problem, since it's already about 5 notches past &quot;sucks&quot;. -4 grapple on grapple checks for a spellcaster is like -4 cha for a fighter; it's not really any kind of disadvantage that you don't already have. Gnome wizards have all the same problems of human wizards, but gnomes get +1 AC and +1 on attack rolls. They're harder to get a hold of to grapple in the first place, and they have more HP to tough out the grappling.The second most important thing is that this thread is about a new base race, not grapple rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Old Gumphrey, post: 3564999, member: 12872"] Or perhaps the problem is that your group doesn't fully understand the grapple rules? See most of your arguments hinge on things like flying grapplers being common. Overland Flight could be renamed "melee immunity". I have never once been involved in a game where flying grapplers were used, in 15 years of gaming (although technically only the last 7 count for flying grapplers). That's not to say it's irrelevant, but I'm sure as heck not going to design a character based around the threat of one. Grell...Giant Toad...so what? You sound like you've been run through RttToEE one too many times with a small character and the DM felt like picking on you. The most important thing is this: I never said grappling isn't dangerous to a caster. I said -4 more isn't a problem, since it's already about 5 notches past "sucks". -4 grapple on grapple checks for a spellcaster is like -4 cha for a fighter; it's not really any kind of disadvantage that you don't already have. Gnome wizards have all the same problems of human wizards, but gnomes get +1 AC and +1 on attack rolls. They're harder to get a hold of to grapple in the first place, and they have more HP to tough out the grappling. The second most important thing is that this thread is about a new base race, not grapple rules. [/QUOTE]

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