Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
2010: Is it Dragonlance? (hint)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4835398" data-attributes="member: 19083"><p>I stand corrected! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>But such wepaons *do* break a lot more than steel weapons it's the inherent nature of obsidian, which is a glass, glass = too many fractures even though it's far far harder than steel, and it's fitted into wood with glues etc. </p><p>Though if the weapon has many "chips" and some break it's not such a big deal. You'd just repair it after each fight form a bag of chips and glue!</p><p></p><p>I'm sure you could come up with simple rules for poor quality wepoans breaking or attack penalties.</p><p></p><p>But as I noted, using psionics or magic, you could remove the flaws, sort of like real life glass hardened steel, so you'd end up with an awesome weapon material, it's only flaws being that it would be light (1/3rd? the weight of steel so less mass for crushing but we cna ignore that for 4th ed as it's nt meant to be simulationist) and some beasties in Athas have <em>damage reduction - iron</em>, liek the braxat (which is one reason why they are such nasty SOBs). </p><p>Obsidian is still used as a surgial scalpel material, which is amazing <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Aye the level of skills of such people show what I mean about Athas, if those folks in our past could make fortresses who's stone blocks really do have such fine jointing you can barely slip a knife between even today....carved out without metal tools...and very intricate irrigation systems, advanced mathematics...hey, I'm pretty sure Athasians would be interesting folk indeed, too!</p><p></p><p>Personally, I am absolutely amazed at the skill of our ancestors. they didn't need bloody UFOs to build the pyramids, lol, just a hell of alot of brains, skill and incredible toil and trial and error. </p><p>Using water channels to get a perfectly level base for building, such a simple but astounding thing, I am gobsmacked by that genius! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>If you add in what psionics and magic could bring, or cultures and info that maybe tens, hundreds of thousands of years old...what they might achieve!!!</p><p>hard thing to grasp but we look at things from a *21st century Earth Human perspective*, our knowledge maybe be absolutely woeful in ways compared to other people who quite literally think differently and have had vast times to learn.</p><p>The vast bulk of our science is only 2 centuries old. What could a psionic people learn in 100,000?!!</p><p></p><p> But as said, because the Sorceror Kings have made writing a death penalty for any non-templar or noble, (so the evil SOBs can keep power and wipe out preservers), there's a lot of ignorance in Dark Sun, with knowledge highly prized and covetted. </p><p>You can iamgine folk using Athasian "bards" (assassins/spies etc) to get info on their crafting techniques. An adventure might be around the PCs stealing an alchemical formulae from a dwarven craftsman for the elves of the Elven Market, who sell it to House Shom, etc.</p><p></p><p>In Dark Sun, it's noted that alchemcy is well known (potion fruit, greek fire etc) but we didn't have to much of an "alchemical" system in 2nd ed, that we do now.</p><p>So adding the alchemical items from the Adventurer's Vault makes perfect sense, and you can imagine some of the Merchant Houses specializing in some specific things.</p><p>Trade was important, I love the trade map that came with "Dune Trader", showing how it flowed. Also, trade = caravans, great adventure points as on Athas they have the huge "Argossies", so you have a mobile fort to defend or attack.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, we've had civilized minotaurs in D&D since Dragonlance, so not sure what yer getting at? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> And lots of folk homebrewed "civilized" minotaurs before or after that.</p><p>3rd ed screwed up minotaurs and some other races with the horrible racial hit dice and ECL stuff, ick. (The racial hit dice in particular was bad.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Novem5er,</p><p>Mutation and weird beasties go hand-in-hand with Dark Sun, so there's no real issue, provided you can fit it in with what's come before.</p><p></p><p>-Devas, ancient reborn spirits of preservers forever fighting the soercor kings?</p><p>-Goliaths, plenty or barren strange areas they cna come form and fit right in.</p><p>-Gnomes were supposed ot have been wiped out in the "official history in the novels* (which I <em>detest</em>). The more-fey, unworldly way of gnomes now fits in ok rather than the cheeryful tinkerers of before. While links with the feywild are likely almost non-existant, the ethos of the sneaky non-human gnome is ok.</p><p>-Eladrin, the original elves of old? Very rare indeed.</p><p>-Dragonborn, well folk say they can be dray, but dray are a bit different (design and looks as athasian dragons are lithe and almost serpentine) and and are the madly devoted servants of their mad wanna-be-god sorceror-king-part-dragon-undead, Dregoth. Ordinary folk fear dragonic things with damn good reason, the Dragon of Tyr could eat the tarrasque for breakfast! So something good would need ot be created for them. Maybe a re-working of the <em>first </em>dray, who Dregoth found repulsive and abandoned? That could work as they are less zealous and more normal in power.</p><p></p><p>You can fit in almost anything you want by saying it's a "Mutation" created by the effects of the Dark Sun, defiling magic or psionics, or the Pritine Tower (if you follow the offiicial history, a structure that warps any creature that comes near it into new forms). So I really don't see mcuh problemwith almost any race.</p><p></p><p>There are ntoed extrapalanr gates on Athas, they are jsut extremely rare except tot he Elemental Planes, the Ethereal was very hard ot get into due ot the "Grey", and the Astral is blocked totally (except for one ancient gate the Githyanki opened again in a module). Wish I coudl recall where but I think ther'es mention of some gates to the Abyss and demons, so I used that in some of my adbentures, so tieflings arne't so impossible. </p><p>Also, since tieflings have fire resistance, that makes them VERY good characters for the fiery wastes of Athas!</p><p></p><p>Another issue is that the "Tyr Region" is only one very small part of Athas, who knows what else is out there...</p><p></p><p>Dark Sun also had two avian races, the aarackocra and the pterrans.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But then again....despite all what we think....they designers could still surprise us and give us Spelljammer!! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /></p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/tradesman/tradesman_transparency_240.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know folk love Draognlance, but I honestly jsut can't see it as that big a need for a setting, as it's got no "oomph", to me, as a D&D setting. It's another alternate Prime Plane world, not so different form the Realms or Greyhawk or Eberron or Kalamar etc....though a diversity of worlds is great for Spelljammer or Planescape adventures of course, as you need places ot go <em>too</em>!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silverblade The Ench, post: 4835398, member: 19083"] I stand corrected! :) But such wepaons *do* break a lot more than steel weapons it's the inherent nature of obsidian, which is a glass, glass = too many fractures even though it's far far harder than steel, and it's fitted into wood with glues etc. Though if the weapon has many "chips" and some break it's not such a big deal. You'd just repair it after each fight form a bag of chips and glue! I'm sure you could come up with simple rules for poor quality wepoans breaking or attack penalties. But as I noted, using psionics or magic, you could remove the flaws, sort of like real life glass hardened steel, so you'd end up with an awesome weapon material, it's only flaws being that it would be light (1/3rd? the weight of steel so less mass for crushing but we cna ignore that for 4th ed as it's nt meant to be simulationist) and some beasties in Athas have [I]damage reduction - iron[/I], liek the braxat (which is one reason why they are such nasty SOBs). Obsidian is still used as a surgial scalpel material, which is amazing :) Aye the level of skills of such people show what I mean about Athas, if those folks in our past could make fortresses who's stone blocks really do have such fine jointing you can barely slip a knife between even today....carved out without metal tools...and very intricate irrigation systems, advanced mathematics...hey, I'm pretty sure Athasians would be interesting folk indeed, too! Personally, I am absolutely amazed at the skill of our ancestors. they didn't need bloody UFOs to build the pyramids, lol, just a hell of alot of brains, skill and incredible toil and trial and error. Using water channels to get a perfectly level base for building, such a simple but astounding thing, I am gobsmacked by that genius! :) If you add in what psionics and magic could bring, or cultures and info that maybe tens, hundreds of thousands of years old...what they might achieve!!! hard thing to grasp but we look at things from a *21st century Earth Human perspective*, our knowledge maybe be absolutely woeful in ways compared to other people who quite literally think differently and have had vast times to learn. The vast bulk of our science is only 2 centuries old. What could a psionic people learn in 100,000?!! But as said, because the Sorceror Kings have made writing a death penalty for any non-templar or noble, (so the evil SOBs can keep power and wipe out preservers), there's a lot of ignorance in Dark Sun, with knowledge highly prized and covetted. You can iamgine folk using Athasian "bards" (assassins/spies etc) to get info on their crafting techniques. An adventure might be around the PCs stealing an alchemical formulae from a dwarven craftsman for the elves of the Elven Market, who sell it to House Shom, etc. In Dark Sun, it's noted that alchemcy is well known (potion fruit, greek fire etc) but we didn't have to much of an "alchemical" system in 2nd ed, that we do now. So adding the alchemical items from the Adventurer's Vault makes perfect sense, and you can imagine some of the Merchant Houses specializing in some specific things. Trade was important, I love the trade map that came with "Dune Trader", showing how it flowed. Also, trade = caravans, great adventure points as on Athas they have the huge "Argossies", so you have a mobile fort to defend or attack. Well, we've had civilized minotaurs in D&D since Dragonlance, so not sure what yer getting at? :) And lots of folk homebrewed "civilized" minotaurs before or after that. 3rd ed screwed up minotaurs and some other races with the horrible racial hit dice and ECL stuff, ick. (The racial hit dice in particular was bad.) Novem5er, Mutation and weird beasties go hand-in-hand with Dark Sun, so there's no real issue, provided you can fit it in with what's come before. -Devas, ancient reborn spirits of preservers forever fighting the soercor kings? -Goliaths, plenty or barren strange areas they cna come form and fit right in. -Gnomes were supposed ot have been wiped out in the "official history in the novels* (which I [I]detest[/I]). The more-fey, unworldly way of gnomes now fits in ok rather than the cheeryful tinkerers of before. While links with the feywild are likely almost non-existant, the ethos of the sneaky non-human gnome is ok. -Eladrin, the original elves of old? Very rare indeed. -Dragonborn, well folk say they can be dray, but dray are a bit different (design and looks as athasian dragons are lithe and almost serpentine) and and are the madly devoted servants of their mad wanna-be-god sorceror-king-part-dragon-undead, Dregoth. Ordinary folk fear dragonic things with damn good reason, the Dragon of Tyr could eat the tarrasque for breakfast! So something good would need ot be created for them. Maybe a re-working of the [I]first [/I]dray, who Dregoth found repulsive and abandoned? That could work as they are less zealous and more normal in power. You can fit in almost anything you want by saying it's a "Mutation" created by the effects of the Dark Sun, defiling magic or psionics, or the Pritine Tower (if you follow the offiicial history, a structure that warps any creature that comes near it into new forms). So I really don't see mcuh problemwith almost any race. There are ntoed extrapalanr gates on Athas, they are jsut extremely rare except tot he Elemental Planes, the Ethereal was very hard ot get into due ot the "Grey", and the Astral is blocked totally (except for one ancient gate the Githyanki opened again in a module). Wish I coudl recall where but I think ther'es mention of some gates to the Abyss and demons, so I used that in some of my adbentures, so tieflings arne't so impossible. Also, since tieflings have fire resistance, that makes them VERY good characters for the fiery wastes of Athas! Another issue is that the "Tyr Region" is only one very small part of Athas, who knows what else is out there... Dark Sun also had two avian races, the aarackocra and the pterrans. But then again....despite all what we think....they designers could still surprise us and give us Spelljammer!! :devil: [img]http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/tradesman/tradesman_transparency_240.png[/img] I know folk love Draognlance, but I honestly jsut can't see it as that big a need for a setting, as it's got no "oomph", to me, as a D&D setting. It's another alternate Prime Plane world, not so different form the Realms or Greyhawk or Eberron or Kalamar etc....though a diversity of worlds is great for Spelljammer or Planescape adventures of course, as you need places ot go [I]too[/I]! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
2010: Is it Dragonlance? (hint)
Top