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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9488484" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Ranger maybe, but the healing just went down and the argument was Paladins were better support because of Lay on Hands.I would argue that Infusions provide more support than some people think but if they're looking for big moment abilities the class is not designed for them.The only reason I think the Ranger might be better than a Paladin is because they also have skill benefits and some control spells in their spell list to consider.Is the Cleric casting Find Traps to replace the Artificer?  I think not.  ;-)That Rogue's healing ability is stellar...The Bard has potential but that depends on how they're built.  It's easy enough to pick up proficiency in Thieves' Tools and take Expertise in Sleight of Hand.  Bards can already access the same or similar spells and more even before Magical Secrets.What Bards don't have is Guidance (they give up Thieves' Tools in the Origin Feat choices for it) early like Artificers and I think Artificers have better attack cantrips.What Bards also don't have is Infusions getting back to how the classes work and where I would start with a pass on Artificers.The other thing Bards don't have is the ability to easily change spells prepared if needed.I'm not comparing Artificers to 2014 versions of those classes.  I started with ideas on what it takes to convert Artificers to 2024 and then people started talking about how they would go beyond what's needed.The Artificer is a replacement for a Rogue in the party as a class that deals with locks and traps in that regard.They gain all gain Expertise in Thieves' Tools. After that they supplement the party magic whether it's from Spells or Infusions.  They're good with INT skills instead of typical scouting skills though.I listed several good Infusions that come early.  It doesn't matter how many magic items the DM allows when Infusions are still more.The biggest issue (IME) with Infusions is that they go on non-magical equipment.  That can get in the way.We house rule Infusions as add-ons rather than alternative equipment.The second biggest issue is there could be a bigger selection.Alchemist is even more niche on a niche class.</blockquote>

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