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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9588135" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Soooooo......A bladesinger isn't in the 2024 rules.  That has to be allowed from past splats by the DM.  That option isn't indicative of all spellcasters and doesn't have all the abilities of all spellcasters either.Training in War and Song is not a good ability.  The wizard is just trading in the mage armor spell for light armor.  Light armor isn't better and anyone can do better armor with a feat because lightly armored includes a shield.  Martial classes have better armor than this ability, and the weapon proficiency is minor.  Martial classes have better weapon proficiencies.Bladesong provides an AC bonus (solid benefit), movement (decent enough), advantage on acrobatics (whatever), and a bonus to concentration checks (good).  The problem with bladesong is it lasts 1 minute and is limited to 2-6 uses per day based on level.  There are 480 minutes in an 8 hour day.  The wizard obviously won't need bladesong up every minute of the day but y'all really have to stop assuming bladesong is always available because it's not.Extra Attack is a good ability.  Not because of any good damage from the bladesinger's poor weapon and ability score damage applied, but because of the ability to substitute one of the attacks with the cantrip.  A cantrip plus a weapon attack is better than a cantrip attack.  The problem here is the bladesinger needs to split DEX for AC and weapon attacks, and INT for bladesinger bonuses and wizard spell benefits.  That's not really an issue for fighters, rogues, and barbarians.Song of Defense isn't bad.  But it is burning those finite spell slots, and it's only an option for those few minutes of the day when bladesong is active.Song of Victory.  Oh look.... there's a damage bonus but not an accuracy bonus and it's based on INT so the build either gave up on DEX or other useful feats.  It's also only active when bladesong is active.It's kind of weird that people would compare the bladesinger subclass to barbarians as if bladesong is always active.  Pointing out things like wizards swapping a single spell on a short rest but missing barbarians using d12 hit dice to self heal on those same short rests that also benefit from rage damage reduction is missing part of the picture.Rage isn't always on either, but rage is also done 2-6 times per day AND recovers one per short rest and rage lasts up to 10 minutes instead of 1 minute.  Giving the wizard a short rest means giving the barbarian a short rest and therefore the barbarian can rage more often than the bladesinger can use bladesong.Unlike the bladesinger, all barbarians have weapon mastery.  Weapon mastery is used per attack and most of them don't have saving throws.  Let's not pretend this isn't a big benefit.Things like reckless attack and brutal strike and rage damage and better weapon selection and applying STR to accuracy and damage is better than the bladesinger's offensive attacks.  The bladesinger argument is only relying on defensive abilities and trying to portray that as most of the barbarian's benefits.When the fight starts, barbarians have advantage on initiative with feral instinct.  This is a big advantage.  When the party is traveling through a tunnel and then they all need to make a DEX save vs a trap the barbarian has advantage on that save from danger sense.  This also mitigates damage and was ignored in the analyses above.  It's not likely the barbarian or the bladesinger is stanced up for exploration events.Some of those abilities aren't flashy, but they are good and were being ignored while bladesong was assumed to be constantly active.  That's not a good analysis.</blockquote>

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