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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 9784656" data-attributes="member: 7023840">Look, I'm not pushing back. If you read everything I've said, you note that I actually like 5.5e.I also didn't make comment about whether 5.5e's sale was amazing, or not in-line with "expectations" (whatever they might be), or anything else.I just wanted to reiterate (in what I thought was a relatively humorous and benign manner) that this is what they always say, always have said, and always will say. I suppose that there may come a time when there is no possible way to spin things in order to make that claim, but I doubt it. Spinners gonna spin.Without actual metrics, you can't make any judgments about what they are saying. None. Nada. I didn't want to bring up past announcements, because that gets into people arguing about editions, and I don't want to go there- but there's a few things to remember...1. When talking to shareholders, you almost always find a way to put things in the best possible light - if you've ever watched Iger in the past (Disney) you know exactly what I'm talking about. He would announce a decline in park attendance as evidence of how Disney fans continue to flock to the parks despite blah blah blah .... (with blah blah blah usually being massive price increases).2. How are they measuring "strongest-ever?" Is it a like-to-like comparison? For example, is it just PHB-PHB from the point of release? Is it in terms of dollar value or units sold? If it is units sold, is it units to distributors, print runs, or actual purchases? If it is dollar value, does it adjust for inflation?3. Do they adjust for population? The US population has increased by more than 50% since D&D was first introduced. Do they adjust for market share? In other words, what percentage of the "D&D market" or "TTRPG" market has purchased 5.5e?4. Most importantly, how successful has it been compared to the a priori expectations of the company and the investment? This is the 3.5e / 4e reminder. Both of those "editions" (or half editions) were ... said to be very successful, the mostest successful, but we later learned that they weren't as successful as the company had hoped (with 3.5e quickly leading to 4e, and 4e quickly leading to 5e). Meanwhile, 5e had almost no internal expectations (nada, zilch) and overperformed expectations immensely. Look, I get it- I like 5.5e. I am not pushing back on it. I think it has been successful, and I wish people would stop reflexively hating on it.* But this specific announcement is pretty meaningless, and unless and until we get better actual metrics** it's only fodder for people to argue the positions that they already know to be true.****If you don't like it, or don't like D&D, or don't like Hasbro, or whatever ... that's cool. But define your life by what you love, not by what you hate.  **Riggs has done a good job getting some of the sales numbers for TSR-era D&D and 4e, for example, and Peterson has done a great job ferreting out the overall TSR financial numbers from 1974-1985. ***Zeno: Look, 5.5e is a complete success! They just said so!Achilles: They're lying liars, Zeno. They are probably just comparing the sales numbers in a village in Albania where they are giving away 5.5e for free so that we forget how they screwed us with the OGL. Zeno: What are you talking about? They can only spin a little on an investor call?Achilles: Why are you the face for Hasbro's capitalist boots?Zeno: Capitalist boots?Achilles: Yo mama wears capitalist boots.</blockquote>

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