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2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top
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<blockquote data-quote="Muh" data-source="post: 9595113" data-attributes="member: 7042567"><p>It becomes very difficult to reply if you don't cite the entire post or leave things out and cut the quotes apart too much.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I never said he can't have fun. What you need is to make sure that the system isn't as over the top with magic as it currently is.</p><p></p><p>The quantity of magic and the power of magic are not the same things.</p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D is weird in that is has a lot of magic that is very much without risk.</p><p></p><p>ICON, Mörk Borg, Call of Cthulhu, Dragonbane, PF2 (to a lesser extent), Blades in the Dark, are a few systems with more restricted magic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That depends entirely on what you mean with Normal Guy.</p><p></p><p>The two characters, to me, sound completely incompatible. One player wants to play a demigod-wizard and the other player wants to play a commoner.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure here what's even being argued.</p><p></p><p>My point is that D&D is fundamentally badly designed, because high level martial characters are highly restricted in many ways, while casters are overpowered.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Are we talking a hypothetical here?</p><p></p><p>I'm saying that a "Normal Guy", if you mean "Realistic" is a commoner.</p><p></p><p>The problem with the hypothetical second player in your scenario is that not only does he want to play a character who does not want to use magic, he wants to also be "mundane" as in as "realistic". We are now in Guy-At-The-Gym territory or even BMX-Bandit and Angel Summoner.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You either stop leveling for that particular player, for all players, or use a slower leveling system from the beginning.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So you're not replying to me here, but I want to fill in with my opinion.</p><p></p><p>The real problem here is that D&D makes it so that magical characters are more competent than non-magical characters. Wanting to play a non-magical character you have to accept to play a worse class.</p><p></p><p>The fix is obviously to make martials more competent, but it'll take a while until we have a viable high level non-magical martial.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Muh, post: 9595113, member: 7042567"] It becomes very difficult to reply if you don't cite the entire post or leave things out and cut the quotes apart too much. I never said he can't have fun. What you need is to make sure that the system isn't as over the top with magic as it currently is. The quantity of magic and the power of magic are not the same things. D&D is weird in that is has a lot of magic that is very much without risk. ICON, Mörk Borg, Call of Cthulhu, Dragonbane, PF2 (to a lesser extent), Blades in the Dark, are a few systems with more restricted magic. That depends entirely on what you mean with Normal Guy. The two characters, to me, sound completely incompatible. One player wants to play a demigod-wizard and the other player wants to play a commoner. I'm not sure here what's even being argued. My point is that D&D is fundamentally badly designed, because high level martial characters are highly restricted in many ways, while casters are overpowered. Are we talking a hypothetical here? I'm saying that a "Normal Guy", if you mean "Realistic" is a commoner. The problem with the hypothetical second player in your scenario is that not only does he want to play a character who does not want to use magic, he wants to also be "mundane" as in as "realistic". We are now in Guy-At-The-Gym territory or even BMX-Bandit and Angel Summoner. You either stop leveling for that particular player, for all players, or use a slower leveling system from the beginning. So you're not replying to me here, but I want to fill in with my opinion. The real problem here is that D&D makes it so that magical characters are more competent than non-magical characters. Wanting to play a non-magical character you have to accept to play a worse class. The fix is obviously to make martials more competent, but it'll take a while until we have a viable high level non-magical martial. [/QUOTE]
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