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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9597617" data-attributes="member: 7635">I think the unspoken element to the discussion is that for a martial character to have parity with magical ones, you not only need to buff martials but nerf casters. Heavily. 4e did this by making the power system not only treat martial exploits like simple spells but reduced magic to similar confinement of effect. Powers were overwhelmingly combat focused. Utility powers lacked the wide variety of abilities that high level magic has. Rituals handled some of the "noncombat" magic uses, but tended towards the lower levels of utility. I will admit I did not follow 4e to it's end, but from what I can recall, nothing matched abilities like wish, gate or simulacrum. 4e magic dud damage + a rider, provided battlefield utility like movement or healing, or was a ritual any character will gold could use. By that measure, it's very easy to have martial power match magical power. There isn't much difference between a fire attack doing 4d6 damage plus burning and an arrow attack that does 4d6 damage plus slowed. Or a power that gives a fighter a climb speed of 10 and a power that lets a wizard levitate with a vertical movement of 10. The effect is the same, only the details change. But 5e (and all older D&D) doesn't have that parity. Wizards and casters get far wider and more powerful effects, get them sooner, and are far more utilitarian. Nothing a martial character can do matches teleport, unless you're willing to give them Flash-like speed force and run to the location in under a minute. But take teleport and make it a ritual and then keep all other fast movement abilities to short distances (such within a typical battlefield) and you can have the fighter climb/jump/run to roughly approximate that kind of mobility. Yes, none of this is new, but I think it's worth remembering that you cannot achieve equality with casters until the casters get a major haircut OR martials can mimic the supernatural abilities of spells. The two conversations are irrevocably linked.</blockquote>

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