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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9600732" data-attributes="member: 7035894">By bible do you mean Torah? And...why go there (using terms from an IRL religion), especially when "soul jar" not only works as well, it works better. I don't have to explain it to players. There's no point in re-litigating it, anyway. It's done.With regards to losing spell lists, I don't like it but I can always use legacy versions (though not for Vecna, grrrrr....). For me, the new version homogenizes spell casting creatures. If the issue was that liches were pushovers, then it's not an either/or situation: you can make them tougher without getting rid of most of their spell options. WotC is choosing simplification, and while I am often in agreement with that, this is a situation where I want my creature to be more complex.Also, if you were having a problem keeping a lich alive for more than a round, then I am going to suggest that you were not putting much planning into it. I never worried about a paladin bursting them down in a round. A lich should be an absolute master of its environment and have multiple plans in place. They aren't a creature you drop in for a tank and spank.</blockquote>