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2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 9219060" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>Coincidentally, the number of the Proficiency bonus happens to be about right for the number attunable magic items.</p><p></p><p>Per 2014, the math expects zero magic items. However, DMs Guide instructs a maximum of three attunable magic items.</p><p></p><p>For the tier of levels 1 thru 4, a maximum of two magic items, according to the Proficiency Bonus, feels less disruptive to the game. On the other hand, at higher tiers more than three magic items feel ok.</p><p></p><p>The Proficiency Bonus happens to generate useful numbers for attunable magic items.</p><p></p><p>My original assessment was only one attunable magic item at the lowest tier, and upto five attunable items at the highest. Then I realized the Proficiency Bonus was already close to this and probably better numbers. It makes more sense to refer to Proficiency Bonus for the number of attunable magic items for the math of the mechanical game engine purposes. The numbers happen to be good numbers.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, it is simple to say, the highest magical bonus for a tier, such as for a sword +1, equals the Proficiency/2. At levels 1 thru 4 and 5 thru 8, the highest expected bonus is +1. At levels 9−12 and 13−16, the highest bonus is +2. Having a +3 bonus is Legend. These bonuses make sense because of 5e bounded accuracy, despite feeling small if accustomed to the inflated numbers of earlier editions.</p><p></p><p>The Proficiency Bonus works.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A DM can do whatever the table finds interesting. I am talking about what the math of the game engine expects. This requires a default that is stable and reliable.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is unfair to rely on the DM to compensate for magic items, especially to respond to overpowered magic items. The introduction of powerful magical items and the various means by which a DM can compensate for them to maintain a reasonable challenge, is extremely complex and normally requires an experienced DM. Powerful magic items are far beyond the scope of core and default.</p><p></p><p>Anything core and default needs to be safe and reliable, and functional in terms of the normal 5e game engine. Such as for novice DMs.</p><p></p><p>Higher tiers in the context of powerful character features can handle more powerful magic items in context. So limiting items by tiers is safer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My point is, the careless introduction of magic items <strong>WILL</strong> destroy the game.</p><p></p><p>As a DM, I learned that the hard way.</p><p></p><p>The only thing that keep balance is the appropriate amount of power at the appropriate level.</p><p></p><p>Any other variable except for "level" becomes a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In context, the idea of "attunement points" implies that a player can invest all of the points on a single magical item, that is more likely than not, overpowered compared to the current tier and will break the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I dont understand the point you are making here.</p><p></p><p>Re the Proficiency Bonus, having two attunable magic items during levels 1 thru 4, is almost two too many.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. It depends on the narrative.</p><p></p><p>To discover some challenge, then spend an hour to attune a specific item that can meet the challenge, then go face the challenge, seems like a normal story to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The point of attunement at all is, the narrative flavor makes sense while preventing the possibility of too many magic items in use at the same time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 9219060, member: 58172"] Coincidentally, the number of the Proficiency bonus happens to be about right for the number attunable magic items. Per 2014, the math expects zero magic items. However, DMs Guide instructs a maximum of three attunable magic items. For the tier of levels 1 thru 4, a maximum of two magic items, according to the Proficiency Bonus, feels less disruptive to the game. On the other hand, at higher tiers more than three magic items feel ok. The Proficiency Bonus happens to generate useful numbers for attunable magic items. My original assessment was only one attunable magic item at the lowest tier, and upto five attunable items at the highest. Then I realized the Proficiency Bonus was already close to this and probably better numbers. It makes more sense to refer to Proficiency Bonus for the number of attunable magic items for the math of the mechanical game engine purposes. The numbers happen to be good numbers. Moreover, it is simple to say, the highest magical bonus for a tier, such as for a sword +1, equals the Proficiency/2. At levels 1 thru 4 and 5 thru 8, the highest expected bonus is +1. At levels 9−12 and 13−16, the highest bonus is +2. Having a +3 bonus is Legend. These bonuses make sense because of 5e bounded accuracy, despite feeling small if accustomed to the inflated numbers of earlier editions. The Proficiency Bonus works. A DM can do whatever the table finds interesting. I am talking about what the math of the game engine expects. This requires a default that is stable and reliable. It is unfair to rely on the DM to compensate for magic items, especially to respond to overpowered magic items. The introduction of powerful magical items and the various means by which a DM can compensate for them to maintain a reasonable challenge, is extremely complex and normally requires an experienced DM. Powerful magic items are far beyond the scope of core and default. Anything core and default needs to be safe and reliable, and functional in terms of the normal 5e game engine. Such as for novice DMs. Higher tiers in the context of powerful character features can handle more powerful magic items in context. So limiting items by tiers is safer. My point is, the careless introduction of magic items [B]WILL[/B] destroy the game. As a DM, I learned that the hard way. The only thing that keep balance is the appropriate amount of power at the appropriate level. Any other variable except for "level" becomes a problem. In context, the idea of "attunement points" implies that a player can invest all of the points on a single magical item, that is more likely than not, overpowered compared to the current tier and will break the game. I dont understand the point you are making here. Re the Proficiency Bonus, having two attunable magic items during levels 1 thru 4, is almost two too many. I agree. It depends on the narrative. To discover some challenge, then spend an hour to attune a specific item that can meet the challenge, then go face the challenge, seems like a normal story to me. The point of attunement at all is, the narrative flavor makes sense while preventing the possibility of too many magic items in use at the same time. [/QUOTE]
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2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d
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