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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9628219" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I said it always upscaled above, however the spell itself is MUCH different now.In 2014 you needed to speak the langauge of the target which made it very, very situational and you couldn't use it on Undead even if they did speak your language.&nbsp; You could use it on maybe 2 in 10 monsters you came across.Now there is no language requirement, and no creature type restrictions.&nbsp; You can use it on a plant or a gelatinous cube or anything.&nbsp; It is way more effective in play because you can use it in any encounter.I am speaking from my experience in 2024, which is now quite significant (one complete 1-20 campaign, one ongoing 1-14 campaign, one ongoing 1-6 campaign and several one-shots).&nbsp; Upcast THL in the 2024 rules is generally more effective than Hypnotic Pattern.&nbsp; Not always and in every situation but generally.You will rarely hit more than 3 enemies with Hypnotic Pattern and because it is an AOE and there is Friendly fire.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you win initiative and get it off early on the first round sure, it can be better, but THL can usually hit 3 regardless of initiative and regardless of what round you cast it.Enemies immune to Charm are immune to HP and others get advantage on the save because it is a charm. That is not an issue for THL because it is not a charm.Hypnotic Pattern is also canceled by damage and can be canceled by another creature using an action, THL only forces another save on damage.&nbsp; This is partly countered by THL being save every round, but with combats generally being less than 4 rounds this is rarely a significant limfac.There are situations where HP is better, long range with clustered enemies is one of those.They each have their use.&nbsp; Command is a single round not concentration, so it doesn't directly compare to THL like HP and the other spells I mentioned.&nbsp; It compares more closely with Dissonant Whispers or Tasha's Mind Whip, both of which it is generally now better than.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9628219, member: 7030563"] I said it always upscaled above, however the spell itself is MUCH different now. In 2014 you needed to speak the langauge of the target which made it very, very situational and you couldn't use it on Undead even if they did speak your language. You could use it on maybe 2 in 10 monsters you came across. Now there is no language requirement, and no creature type restrictions. You can use it on a plant or a gelatinous cube or anything. It is way more effective in play because you can use it in any encounter. I am speaking from my experience in 2024, which is now quite significant (one complete 1-20 campaign, one ongoing 1-14 campaign, one ongoing 1-6 campaign and several one-shots). Upcast THL in the 2024 rules is generally more effective than Hypnotic Pattern. Not always and in every situation but generally. You will rarely hit more than 3 enemies with Hypnotic Pattern and because it is an AOE and there is Friendly fire. If you win initiative and get it off early on the first round sure, it can be better, but THL can usually hit 3 regardless of initiative and regardless of what round you cast it. Enemies immune to Charm are immune to HP and others get advantage on the save because it is a charm. That is not an issue for THL because it is not a charm. Hypnotic Pattern is also canceled by damage and can be canceled by another creature using an action, THL only forces another save on damage. This is partly countered by THL being save every round, but with combats generally being less than 4 rounds this is rarely a significant limfac. There are situations where HP is better, long range with clustered enemies is one of those. They each have their use. Command is a single round not concentration, so it doesn't directly compare to THL like HP and the other spells I mentioned. It compares more closely with Dissonant Whispers or Tasha's Mind Whip, both of which it is generally now better than. [/QUOTE]

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