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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9395404" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I would strongly disagree about Wisdom being worse than Constitution, especially in levels 1-10.  Failing a Wisdom save is usually more disruptive than failing a constitution save as they often cause incapacitation or worse.  Constitution saves usually cause poisoned or restrained which are less detrimental and they often take an effect on a hit, making dexterity a first line of defense to mitigating them.A good Wisdom helps a lot for saves, at high level this is less useful without proficiency, but at level 5 the difference between a -1 and a +2 is huge, then add all the skills it is used for on top of that.  This is a lot better than the 15 hit points the trade in Constitution gives you.More than you make concentration saves and it is worse when you fail them.  Wisdom proficiency is pretty much mandatory above level 16 for any character if you want to actually be in control of it.   Meanwhile I played characters from level 1-20 with a 10 Constitution and never had much problems.AC yes, hit points no, or more specifically the hit points you get from a  higher constitution no.  Pushing Constitution just doesn't give you enough hit points to matter, especially with how available healing and temporary hit points are and how minimially debilitating even being at 0 hit points is as long as a party member has healing word.Also Wisdom drives how much YOU will be surprised regardless of other characters perception.  That again is more valuable than the few hit points you get.The only build that really needs to drive hit points high is someone who wants to tank with a low armor class - like a typical Barbarian.   While those characters do "need" a high Constitution, that is not an optimal way to fill that role.  Getting a screaming high AC and saves so you won't easily be incapacitated is a far more effective way to do that.Failing a save against something like Hold Person while you are tanking is going to drain all those constitution hit points in a New York minute.</blockquote>

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