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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9396475" data-attributes="member: 18">This is pretty amazing to me.Your example is just bizarre and appears to be the most contrived situation possible. How does the Wizard have 21 AC? That's a completely implausible value at L6-ish unless they're spamming Shield. Why do they have Booming Blade, something usually only taken by melee specialists? (It also undermines your claim that you were going for "realistically weak" melee attacks) How are they able to cast Hold Person likely 6+ times? This is not something that really happens in games. And in both cases in your example, the Fighter does basically nothing! It doesn't even support your contention that WIS is meaningfully better even in this contrived and very strange scenario you've created, because both ways, the Fighter is a dead man. In one he dies in 13 rounds, in the other he dies in 12.5 rounds.That's against someone who he can't hit because their AC is too high, and who is basically specialized in killing him. Even there, +2 WIS doesn't meaningfully improve his situation. In fact, it looks like you're proving my point - in the most contrived possible scenario, where you're controlling all the variables, and you've set up everything to maximize the value of WIS, it's still very close to even.Over an entire campaign, especially with the improvements to healing spells in 5E, having more HP is going to be more useful.One thing I agree on is that a lot of CON-save paralysis and petrification and similar requires a to-hit roll first (albeit not all of it). However, it's also more common as a result, more likely to be AOE (from monsters), and in some cases has nastier effects. For example, Gorgon breath is a CON save when you're initially hit (no roll to hit) where you are Restrained if you fail. And you get another save at the end of your next turn to break that - but if you don't, you're Petrified - which is literally worse than being dead until 9th level or higher! If you hit 0 HP from Hold Person crits, the spell breaks, then you can be yoyo'd by heals etc. Even if they kill you whilst you're down, you can L3 Revivify'd after the fight. But Petrification? Nope. No solution until L5 Greater Restoration.</blockquote>

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