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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9405449" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The current PHB describes wizards as "scholars of the arcane" and "defined and united as a class by the spells they cast".  "Master of arcane" seems like an insertion that places them on a pedestal above other spellcasters that doesn't and shouldn't exist, IMO.I think you're correct that the wizard essentially casts spells but seem to be missing the main point.  They have the biggest list from which they can access with the easiest ability to access that list among all the arcane spellcasters.  2024 adding expertise to the class grants flavor and non-magical capability while memorize spell look really good when a person considers accessing spells from that huge list even if it is restricted by spells scribed in the spell book, but the spell book has free spells at start plus free spells at level up plus free spells from subclass.  That's a minimum 53 spells in the book by 20th level that can all be accessed by prepared spells, unprepared rituals, or (worst case scenario) a short rest using memorize spell.  Plus subclasses can grant always prepped spells plus spell mastery plus signature spells and more spells can be added.  Other spellcasters don't come close to that based on spell prep rules.  That seems like the flavor of the class that's pretty much always existed.  5e doesn't seem to have made spellcasting more common to me because, the number of spell slots has been reduced from previous editions and the number of spell casting classes hasn't changed.  It's giving "simpler times fallacy" vibes.  ;-)That seems like an odd conclusion.  Spell memorization is based on a short rest.  Divine intervention is limited to 5th level cleric spells and lower and usable once per long rest.  I'm not convinced that's 1000x better.  Greater divine intervention comes late, allows the use of the wish spell, and takes about 5 days to recharge.  Wizards are already casting wish levels earlier so still not 1000x better.  ;-)Wizards do have the biggest spell list and the 2024 dev team has already indicated that new spells are geared towards the wizard list as noted on the first page of this thread.  Bard access to the wizard list is incredibly limited compared to the wizard access to the wizard list because magical secrets doesn't come into play until tier 3 and the access is very slow.  Bards can replace on spell at each level up with a wizard spell (which is an opportunity cost in itself) or add wizard spells only on levels where they increase spells prepared, which is 8 instead of 6 based on the UA playtest.  That's a fraction of what the wizard can do with their own list and ignores those subclass enhancements.  You might mention fireball but bard could already do that in 2e (which was the exact same list and you liked previous editions per your post) or in 3e via PrC's very easily.I agree that wizards do not typically scribe their entire spell list in their spell books, but it is still better access than those to which any other spellcaster can access at any given time.  I would also argue that access to the full list on a long rest isn't necessary to be effective, or even a huge benefit given the apples to oranges lists mentioned.Which past editions do you prefer your wizards?  They used to rely on darts a lot.  Cantrips iin this format weren't really a thing for these classes for quite a bit of history of the game.  ;-)I don't believe clerics and druids are better with their cantrips.  Wizards also have the largest cantrip list and easiest option to swap them out too as of 2024 rules.Sorcerers have a good spell list and metamagic is the reason to play them.  The sorcerer improvements are QoL changes to increase using that benefit and look good.  They're also getting more spells prepped moving forward and the sorcerous rage looks nicely thematic.I responded because I don't agree with a lot of your frustrations, but I am sorry that you're frustrated with the class.  I would give my comments some thought.  I find wizards are still an excellent class.</blockquote>

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