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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9408237" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Wizards still have too many spells those other arcane casters won't have available.  This is a fact because the wizard list is much larger.This still isn't true.  The wizard list contains almost the entire sorcerer list while the opposite isn't true and the bard or warlock list share some spells but those lists diverge away from the wizard list.<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Level </td><td>Bard </td><td>Sorcerer </td><td>Warlock </td><td>Wizard </td><td>Wiz SB </td></tr><tr><td>1 </td><td>4 </td><td>2 </td><td>2 </td><td>4 </td><td>6 </td></tr><tr><td>2 </td><td>5 </td><td>4 </td><td>3 </td><td>5 </td><td>8 </td></tr><tr><td>3 </td><td>6 </td><td>10 </td><td>8 </td><td>6 </td><td>12 </td></tr><tr><td>4 </td><td>7 </td><td>11 </td><td>9 </td><td>7 </td><td>14 </td></tr><tr><td>5 </td><td>9 </td><td>15 </td><td>12 </td><td>9 </td><td>17 </td></tr><tr><td>6 </td><td>10 </td><td>16 </td><td>13 </td><td>10 </td><td>19 </td></tr><tr><td>7 </td><td>11 </td><td>19 </td><td>16 </td><td>11 </td><td>22 </td></tr><tr><td>8 </td><td>12 </td><td>20 </td><td>17 </td><td>12 </td><td>24 </td></tr><tr><td>9 </td><td>14 </td><td>24 </td><td>21 </td><td>14 </td><td>27 </td></tr><tr><td>10 </td><td>15 </td><td>25 </td><td>21 </td><td>15 </td><td>29 </td></tr><tr><td>11 </td><td>16 </td><td>26 </td><td>23 </td><td>16 </td><td>32 </td></tr><tr><td>12 </td><td>16 </td><td>26 </td><td>23 </td><td>16 </td><td>34 </td></tr><tr><td>13 </td><td>17 </td><td>27 </td><td>25 </td><td>17 </td><td>37 </td></tr><tr><td>14 </td><td>17 </td><td>27 </td><td>25 </td><td>18 </td><td>39 </td></tr><tr><td>15 </td><td>18 </td><td>28 </td><td>27 </td><td>19 </td><td>42 </td></tr><tr><td>16 </td><td>18 </td><td>28 </td><td>27 </td><td>21 </td><td>44 </td></tr><tr><td>17 </td><td>19 </td><td>29 </td><td>29 </td><td>22 </td><td>47 </td></tr><tr><td>18 </td><td>20 </td><td>30 </td><td>29 </td><td>25 </td><td>49 </td></tr><tr><td>19 </td><td>21 </td><td>31 </td><td>30 </td><td>26 </td><td>51 </td></tr><tr><td>20 </td><td>24 </td><td>32 </td><td>30 </td><td>29 </td><td>53 </td></tr></table>Those are the spells prepared compared to these classes including those warlocks and those sorcerers with bonus spells from their subclasses.   It also includes the bard 20th level bonus spells.  The wizard spell book includes only those spells added by leveling up.  The chart are based on the UA and align with the comments I linked to the sorcerer article on DDB earlier.It's possible there might be tweaks but this is consistent with what's been stated so any differences would be minor.If there is some weird group that you're in where you are playing a wizard and someone else is playing another arcane caster and they are trying to take "all your spells" then let them try.  Your wizard can just take different spell that they cannot and also change them up easily whereas they need to level up in order to make minor changes.It's not possible for any of those classes to do what you describe and take all the spells away.  They don't have access to the full list and they are more limited in preparing them or swapping them out.  This is true because the list is so big and the spell book contains more options at the bare minimum.Yes, but when it was discussed earlier what I'm continuing to say now was demonstrated.  There isn't any information in what you are stating.  It's just "I'm right because I said it before" when what was stated before was the same claims without any evidence to back those claims up.One of the reasons rituals work out well for wizards is because they don't need to cost slots, which is a very limited resource, and because they don't need to be prepared like every other class requires.  So going back to out 5th level sorcerer vs wizard example the sorcerer who tries to compete with the wizard cantrips is only going to get to have about 3 of their spells selected outside of those rituals because the subclass spells are fixed.  They can select more spells (and less "wizard list spells") or they can select more spells but give up the rituals.  Wizards easily do both.The wizard can literally change those spells with a short rest if a different spell is needed.  No, that doesn't guarantee the spell is in the spell book but the likelihood is a lot higher given the number of spells in the spell book compared to the choices available to those other arcane class or the lack of ability to change those spells out at all.Wizard advantages are the huge list from which to select, the best mechanics for using rituals, the larger pool of spells from which to draw from within the spell book, and ease of which the wizard can change those spells.  And they also might be able to add to those options just for a low cost in gold and time.Also going back to that 5th level example, the wild magic sorcerer does not get bonus spells.  The aberrant mind does.  At 5t level those bonus spells are not something the player can select.  What that sorcerer selects up to that point are 9 spells while the wizard has selected 14 in general and 3 from their school.  The wizard has nearly twice the selection they can take.What spells do you think these classes are taking that you feel like the wizard is getting invalidated?</blockquote>

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