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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9409679" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Only Drow, Dueregar and Sverfneblin get darkvision equal to a Shadow Sorcerer (and Twilight Clerics which are even better yet).  You mentioned how great it was to have a familiar with 120' darkvision, hence the reason I pointed it out.But it isn't as strong at 1st level.  It is much weaker, especially if not paired with Mage Armor.Forget slots for a moment, give a first level unarmored character one use of shield or one use of Strength of the Grave with a +5 save and the second example will generally be more survivable.  This is not true at higher levels where multiattack comes into play and where damage is higher, but it is true at 1st level (the level we are talking about).Moreover this is the point - the 1st level Sorcerer can have the benifits of a shield (actually better than the benefits of one casting) without spending a slot or even having that spell prepared.Prevention is not better than a cure though.  You have a zero hit point floor, if you are at 1 hit point an attack can't do more than 1 point of damage damage.  Further there is no difference in terms of play with being at 1 hit point or at full hit points (6 in this case but it could be 106).Mathmatically the most efficient use of healing is to cure for minimum possible hit point after you go to 0.This is why your cleric yo-yoing the Fighter with healing word 8 hit points every turn is MUCH MORE effective at 12th level than casting the Heal spell and bringing him to 70 in one shot.It has multiple major disadvantages too - it doesn't negate all hits, it uses a spell prepared and it uses a spell slot.It is also not as powerful at 1st level from a mathematical perspective.  Numbers matter.  SOG at 1st level has about a 75% chance on average of taking an attack that would kill you and making it not kill you.Shield has a 25% chance of protecting you from an attack, although that is not the whole story.The average enemy at 1st level has a +4 attack bonus.  If you assume a hit on an AC13 Wizard, casting shield has a 5 in 12 (42%) chance of protecting you from a hit that would otherwise down you.  It can protect you from future hits as well (if you have already cast it 25% per attack), but again we are talking about 1st level where you are not getting attacked a lot.So if you are comparing this mathematically SOG is just plain more powerful at 1st level.Moreover SOG works on any damage you take, not just on attacks.Even if you only need one combat cantrip (which I disagree with, I like 3 ideally - Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch and Firebolt), but more to the point there are a ton of good non-combat cantrips too and yon want them on your list.Ok there are a few with this - at 1st level the average enemy has a +4 attack bonus, so they would need an 8 to hit AC 12, not a 6.  I tend to use AC 13 for an unarmored caster, which means it stops 42% of attacks that would otherwise hit (as noted above)There is no rule that you have to see the attack roll, I realize different tables play differently, but the point is when it is not effective at stoping the attack (which will be a majority of the time without armor or mage armor) you will go down if the attack would down you.An attack that would down you will not down you a majority of the time with SOG.  If you have actually seen SOG in play at 1st level I can't believe that you don't understand how powerful it is.This is not as poweful as people think for three reasons - first many enemies have legendary resistance.  Second most of the time an enemy passes a save at high level it is because they have a high saving throw number, meaning a high chance of succeeding again, third it uses your reaction thereby killing counterspell, Shield or Absorb Elements.I have played a ton of high level D&D in the last 2 years and SB is just not OP.  Period.Silvery Barbs is a decent spell powerwise and it is a "not fun" PITA in terms of gameplay at the table, but it is not extremely powerful.  Shield, Absorb Elements, Dissonant Whispers, Healing Word, Bless, Find Familiar and Sanctuary are all substantially more powerful than SB at high level.Well I wasn't the DM, but it would have been counterspelled if he did use it.Not really.  It is a creature ender at 1st level, but you are usually fighting more than one enemy.  If you are all ganging up on a single Ettercap when you have 3 martials engaged with him, sure it can be a fight ender on a failed save, but generally you are fighting multiple bandits or multiple goblins or multiple skeletons and this kills one of them with the damage and AOOs it generates.Don't get me wrong it is one of my favorite first level spells and one I commonly get off list with either Magic Initiate or Fey Touched.  It is absolutly bonkers with twin spell on a Sorcerer or high level Enchantment Wizard ... but that is higher level.  It is also broken on a frightened enemy, and that happens a lot at level, but is again not common at 1st.At first level sleep is still going to be more effective.  If you are in this 1 v many you are not going to have enough to one shot the BBEG even with DW and the AOOs it generates and you are not going to have enough to one shot him with sleep either.But if you are to the point in terms of hit points that DW would end the encounter with one casting, then sleep is going to end the encounter too and it will do it more reliably because there is no save.I like Cause Fear a lot better than THL as far as 1st level control.  THL is situationally better but as a concentration spell Cause Fear is generally more effective because damage does not cause another save.  If you cast it on enemies at range (or follow it with a Dissonant Whispers) it takes away the ability of enemies to close for melee, rendering many nearly as useless as THL.  It is also very effective on enemies with a melee multiattack because your martials can attack and then back away, taking a single AOO but avoiding multiattack.You can use a SP to twin Cause Fear, but you can also upcast it.Most of the time I get THL it is on a Rogue because they can't get Cause Fear.Ok what 10 spells do you pick with your 11th level WarlockKeep in mind the Sorcerer is rocking Animate Objects, Globe of Invulnerability, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Greater Invisibility, Psychic Lance and he does not have to use a 5th level slot to cast most of those!That is decent, but with a 1-hour time I don't find it compelling when compared to the spell.  I usually get this as a spell on Rogues, Bards and Wizards with a high Charisma.  Less often on Sorcerers.I don't like it compared to things like Investment of the Chain Master, Gift of the Everliving Ones, Eldrtich Sight or Eldritch Mind.  If I want Disguise Self on a Warlock I am probably getting it through either Magic Initiate or Shadow Touched.Yeah and a Warlock is generally a glass cannon at this level too.I get that but it is not generally as powerful as a full caster.I have played a number of Warlocks.  The only thing I have seen that is mildly OP on a Warlock is Investment of the Chain Master with a Sprite firing poison arrows from range.  If you have funds and the DM allows things like Purple Worm poison or Wyvern Posion this stays powerful even at level 11.  If you don't it then it starts to peter off about level 7.Light Armor is not much different from no armor at 11th level.  If you are a Hexblade this is a difference, not much of one if you are not.  The Warlock has 11 more hit points (or the same number if it is a Dragon Sorcerer), again not even the equivalent of one 2nd level slot.They have 5 invocations, so a relatively small collection.I play Warlocks.  I am playing one right now.I don't get it myself but I have seen others (mostly Hexblades) use it.More to the point - what are these great spells you are using all your extra 5th level slots on?  We have established it is not Hex, it is not SOM.  What is it?</blockquote>

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